# WTF is Obamagate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 12, 2020, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-obamagate/853616 "2020-05-12T01:41:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2020, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-obamagate/853616/122 "2020-05-17T19:19:46Z")
Obamagate is about a racist man that somewhere somehow MAYBE understands that he will never be one tenth of the man Obama is. I really hope that somewhere in Trumps reptilian ‘brain’ he realizes this. Good fucking luck trying to punch up Donald. The GOP wants to distract from his incompetence and failures. Playing to his idiot racist supporters is just the thing to do. They are still complaining about Clinton emails, and need some other CT to allow them to sleep at night. Straight out of the Republican playbook. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2020, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-obamagate/853616/123 "2020-05-17T20:31:46Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > [Obama tan suit controversy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obama_tan_suit_controversy) > Basically, Obama wore a tan suit for a news conference about ISIS and Republicans went ape-shit over how unpresidential it was. That’s not tan. I was expecting something along the lines of baby-poo brown, not the beige that I see in the linked pic. Now if it had been tan, then I’d understand the outrage. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2020, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-obamagate/853616/124 "2020-05-17T20:39:41Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I think the idea is that just the way people link Nixon with Watergate and they know it’s something bad _(although I’ll bet 90% of Americans walking around today don’t know what the “Watergate” crime was or why it’s named that)_, they’ll link the vaguely nefarious, accusatory “Obamagate” with “Obama”-- made extra simple for the stupid set because his name is part of it. :dubious: Not saying trump is capable of this level of reasoning and foresight, but his lackeys and minions are promoting it. It shows about as much imagination as the First Lady calling her campaign “Be Best,” to piggyback on Michelle Obama’s “Be Better.” Adding the suffix “-gate” is silly since the Watergate was the name of the hotel where all the spying went on. It has no meaning in and of itself. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2020, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-obamagate/853616/125 "2020-05-17T20:49:50Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > …Adding the suffix “-gate” is silly since the Watergate was the name of the hotel where all the spying went on. It has no meaning in and of itself. _BEEP_ Disqualified as a reason. In today’s America the fact that something _has no meaning in and of itself_ is a reason/explanation/comment that _has no meaning in and of itself_. [See how that works?](https://artsy-media-uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/nhW5n4lspNC-9spVP2HKvA%2FEscher+-+Relativity.jpg) You’re welcome. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![dogbutler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dogbutler/32/428_2.png) [@dogbutler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dogbutler)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2020, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-obamagate/853616/126 "2020-05-17T22:02:26Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > It doesn’t even have to be humanly possible. The pizza shop accused of being part of the ring didn’t even _have_ a basement. [Tinfoil hat]_THAT’S WHAT THEY WANT US TO BELIVES_[/Tinfoli Hat] But yeah, I have people who I’ve known for years doing all sorts of mental gymnastics to agree with Trump. ---
**Author:** ![crywalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crywalt/32/3224_2.png) [@crywalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crywalt)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2020, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-obamagate/853616/127 "2020-05-18T00:27:57Z")
I’ve been keeping a copy of this text around for the past couple of years because it needs to be deployed frequently. Sartre wrote this about anti-Semites but it applies perfectly to fascists in general and our American fascists in particular. > [@](#): > > Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past. It is not that they are afraid of being convinced. They fear only to appear ridiculous or to prejudice by their embarrassment their hope of winning over some third person to their side. > > —Jean-Paul Sartre, “Anti-semite and Jew” Earlier in the conversation here someone wished that a reporter would stand up at a press conference and say, “This is bullshit.” A few days ago we finally saw how that would work out: Trump simply declared the press conference over and walked out. He definitely loftily indicated that the time for argument is past. In short, “Obamagate” is transparently bullshit and is intended exactly that way. That it’s irrational _is the point_. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2020, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-obamagate/853616/128 "2020-05-18T01:06:47Z")
> [@crywalt](#): > > I’ve been keeping a copy of this text around for the past couple of years because it needs to be deployed frequently. Sartre wrote this about anti-Semites but it applies perfectly to fascists in general and our American fascists in particular. > > > [@](#): > > > > Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past. It is not that they are afraid of being convinced. They fear only to appear ridiculous or to prejudice by their embarrassment their hope of winning over some third person to their side. > > > > —Jean-Paul Sartre, “Anti-semite and Jew” > > Earlier in the conversation here someone wished that a reporter would stand up at a press conference and say, “This is bullshit.” A few days ago we finally saw how that would work out: Trump simply declared the press conference over and walked out. He definitely loftily indicated that the time for argument is past. > > In short, “Obamagate” is transparently bullshit and is intended exactly that way. That it’s irrational _is the point_. Succinct and perfectly said. Thank you for sharing it. I shall keep it handy going forward, too. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2020, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-obamagate/853616/129 "2020-05-18T01:15:55Z")
> [@crywalt](#): > > I’ve been keeping a copy of this text around for the past couple of years because it needs to be deployed frequently. Sartre wrote this about anti-Semites but it applies perfectly to fascists in general and our American fascists in particular. > > > [@](#): > > > > Quote: > > Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past. It is not that they are afraid of being convinced. They fear only to appear ridiculous or to prejudice by their embarrassment their hope of winning over some third person to their side. > > > > —Jean-Paul Sartre, “Anti-semite and Jew” > > Earlier in the conversation here someone wished that a reporter would stand up at a press conference and say, “This is bullshit.” A few days ago we finally saw how that would work out: Trump simply declared the press conference over and walked out. He definitely loftily indicated that the time for argument is past. > > In short, “Obamagate” is transparently bullshit and is intended exactly that way. That it’s irrational _is the point_. That quotation certainly hits the nail right on the head. Especially this: “…it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words.” This is why Biden and the Dems can’t use trump’s methods to defeat him. They have to render trump impotent. They have to move the contest off the board, off the playing field, outside the game. I don’t know how – my imagination is limited because I still believe in words. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2020, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-obamagate/853616/130 "2020-05-18T02:15:23Z")
You’re all talking about it, and thus it becomes real. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2020, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-obamagate/853616/131 "2020-05-18T15:25:39Z")
“When _I_ use a word,” Humpty Trumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.” “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.” “The question is,” said Humpty Trumpty, “[del]which[/del] who is to be master—that’s all.” ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2020, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-obamagate/853616/132 "2020-05-18T15:33:53Z")
Ninja’d! ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2020, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-obamagate/853616/133 "2020-05-18T15:47:54Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > … Biden and the Dems can’t use trump’s methods to defeat him. They have to render trump impotent. They have to move the contest off the board, off the playing field, outside the game. I don’t know how – my imagination is limited because I still believe in words. It is painfully simple: do not speak of him. Do not respond to him. Do not mention his name. If asked about him, talk about _your_ ideas on the particular subject, gibing away from him. Treat him as though he does not matter, that it is _not all about HIM_, that we are headed away from this ugly place. _What? No, I do not care one iota if that guy fucks pigs, let him have his fun. Just make sure my glazed ham is thoroughly cooked._ ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2020, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-obamagate/853616/134 "2020-05-18T16:06:59Z")
> **[Historian Timothy Snyder: Trump's lies are creeping tyranny](https://www.vox.com/conversations/2017/5/22/15663268/donald-trump-democracy-timothy-snyder-fascism-truth)** > > A historian on the danger of Donald Trump. > [@](#): > > We also discuss the role of truth in a liberal democracy, and why illiberal regimes thrive on confusion and cynicism. > > His message is simple: If there is no truth, there are no facts; if there are no facts, there is no rule of law; and if there is no rule of law, you can’t maintain a liberal democracy. But let’s not forget: it’s not just gun-toting MAGAbots who are susceptible to schemes against truth and fact-based reality (and incidentally, this is where democracy can really fall apart): > [@](#): > > The mechanism by which you dissolve people’s certainty about truth is that you get them to believe lots of untrue things. The final goal is total cynicism. > > … > > So even people who feel like they want to resist have a certain amount of trouble because in Trump, they hear a kind of distant echo of things they once might have heard in a lecture hall, and they’re not really sure what to think about the establishment or democracy or political elites. To see how this works, check out those Tara Reade threads. Here’s Garry Kasparov’s insightful comments on propaganda and truth: > > [@](#): > > The point of modern propaganda isn’t only to misinform or push an agenda. It is to exhaust your critical thinking, to annihilate truth. The earlier post referencing antisemitism was spot on. I agree that anyone who “believes” in Obamagate knows that there’s likely been no actual legal crime committed. That’s why I said earlier that they probably know that Trump just pulled the allegation straight out of his ass and that there’s no actual evidence of a crime being committed. But at the same time, it’s a big mistake to dismiss the seriousness of their thinking. They’re not joking around. They might be having some fun with words but they are deadly serious about demonizing those with whom they have grievances. Due to a variety of technological, social, economic, and political changes that have hit us with great force and at dizzying speed, fissures have developed and we have become a fractured society. Mistrust grows and some of those wounds are becoming gangrenous. One consequence is that there is deep mistrust of people who don’t appear to be like us or are recognizably different in some apparently meaningful way. In this situation, people become hyper-defensive. And they assume that they are under attack. They assume that whatever they can imagine doing to someone they consider to be a nemesis, they can just as easily imagine being done to them by that person, which only serves to intensify the bunker mentality. It’s literally people adopting a battlefield mentality, except that we’re not on live battlefields – not yet anyway. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2020, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-obamagate/853616/135 "2020-05-18T16:10:51Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > That quotation certainly hits the nail right on the head. Especially this: “…it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words.” > > This is why Biden and the Dems can’t use trump’s methods to defeat him. They have to render trump impotent. They have to move the contest off the board, off the playing field, outside the game. I don’t know how – my imagination is limited because I still believe in words. Just keep speaking truth. Over and over and over again. There is no better truth to exploit than what’s happening right now, right in front of everyone. I am bullish on Trump’s ability to take a debacle and turn it into a full-scale meltdown for the ages. He will do that. He will try to lie about it, and he could possibly get away with it. But he’s less likely to if people keep fearlessly holding his nose to the giant pile of shit that he (they) have dropped on our carpet. Keep rubbing their fucking noses in it. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2020, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-obamagate/853616/136 "2020-05-18T16:12:14Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > It is painfully simple: do not speak of him. Do not respond to him. Do not mention his name. If asked about him, talk about _your_ ideas on the particular subject, gibing away from him. Treat him as though he does not matter, that it is _not all about HIM_, that we are headed away from this ugly place. _What? No, I do not care one iota if that guy fucks pigs, let him have his fun. Just make sure my glazed ham is thoroughly cooked._ Yes, I wish they would do this. Trump is a headline whore and unfortunately all he has to do is fart and it makes headlines. Even the MSM are guilty of this. He prefers that the headlines praise him, but he doesn’t care if they vilify him. As long as he gets them. And if a few [del]hours[/del] minutes go by when he’s not in the headlines, he’ll tweet something outrageous and make everyone jump. He’s fiddling and we’ve all been dancing to his tune waaaaay too long! ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2020, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-obamagate/853616/137 "2020-05-18T18:28:40Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > You’re all talking about it, and thus it becomes real. I understand your point, but remember that John Kerry believed that answering the false Swift Boat claims (made up out of whole cloth by Jerome Corsi) was beneath his dignity, so he didn’t. And we saw how that went. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2020, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-obamagate/853616/138 "2020-05-18T19:36:37Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I understand your point, but remember that John Kerry believed that answering the false Swift Boat claims (made up out of whole cloth by Jerome Corsi) was beneath his dignity, so he didn’t. And we saw how that went. I don’t know if Corsi made up the bullshit Swift Boat claims, but he certainly wrote the book that publicized them. The claims, and television ads, were out there before Corsi’s book. It’s also worth noting that retired admiral William Schaacte, an SBVT member and bullshit artist about Kerry’s service in Vietnam, was a partner in a lobbying firm. His clients received tens of millions of dollars in defense contracts from the Bush adminstration after the election. Just a bit of payment for services rendered, I guess. Also, one of his partners in the firm, David Norcross, was convention chair for the Republican convention that year. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2020, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-obamagate/853616/139 "2020-05-18T19:43:37Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > I don’t know if Corsi made up the bullshit Swift Boat claims, but he certainly wrote the book that publicized them. > > The claims, and television ads, were out there before Corsi’s book. > > It’s also worth noting that retired admiral William Schaacte, an SBVT member and bullshit artist about Kerry’s service in Vietnam, was a partner in a lobbying firm. His clients received tens of millions of dollars in defense contracts from the Bush adminstration after the election. Just a bit of payment for services rendered, I guess. > > Also, one of his partners in the firm, David Norcross, was convention chair for the Republican convention that year. Interesting stuff. I remember Corsi bragging about it, but I don’t have a cite to hand. He certainly fanned the flames if he wasn’t the outright liar about it. Disgusting. When his name cropped up in connection with Trump, I wasn’t surprised. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2020, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-obamagate/853616/140 "2020-05-18T20:32:11Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I understand your point, but remember that John Kerry believed that answering the false Swift Boat claims (made up out of whole cloth by Jerome Corsi) was beneath his dignity, so he didn’t. And we saw how that went. And we did not see the universe where John Kerry got pulled down a rabbit hole by answering the false Swift Boat claims, and are now sitting here talking about how he lost by being dragged through the mud and morass of trying to defend himself against bad faith claims. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2020, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-obamagate/853616/141 "2020-05-18T22:46:29Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Yes, I wish they would do this. Trump is a headline whore and unfortunately all he has to do is fart and it makes headlines. Even the MSM are guilty of this. He prefers that the headlines praise him, but he doesn’t care if they vilify him. As long as he gets them. And if a few [del]hours[/del] minutes go by when he’s not in the headlines, he’ll tweet something outrageous and make everyone jump. He’s fiddling and we’ve all been dancing to his tune waaaaay too long! it needs to be done [like this](https://www.avvanta.com/~sydde/biden20.png) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-obamagate/853616.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-obamagate/853616.md?page=8)