# WTF is the stupid outrage over "Oriental" about? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 22, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-the-stupid-outrage-over-oriental-about/702163 "2014-10-22T17:47:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-the-stupid-outrage-over-oriental-about/702163/241 "2014-11-05T13:05:44Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > That’s the problem there - we _never_ seem to, don’t we? Sure we do. They just closed down one of the threads about \*\*Smapti \*\*because we were talking about one person too much. On the other hand, it’s going to take a long time to help improve the lives of people across the world if it can only be done at an individual level. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-the-stupid-outrage-over-oriental-about/702163/242 "2014-11-05T13:11:23Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Sure we do. They just closed down one of the threads about \*\*Smapti \*\*because we were talking about one person too much. Possibly it was more about the fact that they zombified him to do it 🙂 > [@](#): > > On the other hand, it’s going to take a long time to help improve the lives of people across the world if it can only be done at an individual level. “One drop raises the sea” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-the-stupid-outrage-over-oriental-about/702163/243 "2014-11-05T19:58:27Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > That’s the problem there - we _never_ seem to, don’t we? “We”? What’s this “we” bullshit? Are you seriously going to lump everyone together instead of saying the name of each person who doesn’t have the time? Until “we” engineer a virus that kills off 99.999% of the earth’s population (give or take a couple of 9s), “we” will never have the time to talk about each person individually. It’s not efficient, it’s not productive, and it’s not necessary. Sometimes it’s fine to talk about folks **according to their perceived social groups**. > [@](#): > > You can’t group people by race/ethnicity and not be working in a race/ethnicity-based system of thought, though. By using the groups, you’re participating. There is no “observer stance” there. Two views: 1. People have innate characteristics that correspond exactly to race, and some of these characteristics have social implications. 2. Many people hold view #1 and act accordingly, and it’s affected large groups of people in similar ways, and if you make guesses about whether someone was affected by these actions **based on the skin color of the person you’re guessing about** , you’ll be right an overwhelming amount of the time. #1 is not the same as #2. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-the-stupid-outrage-over-oriental-about/702163/244 "2014-11-06T02:08:16Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > No-one’s asking for that. > Why would you have to? And how frequently might you get it wrong? And what shallow superficialities are you using to group people by “looks”? > > No, it’s not “perfectly fine”, history has shown it’s anything but. It is perfectly fine and Asians, in general, are perfectly fine with it. They use the term Aisan all the time in professional settings. Just google “Asian Society” or “Asian Association”. Are you claiming that they are unwittingly using incorrect or offensive terminology to refer to themselves? Your goal may be noble but I think you are a bit out of step with reality. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-the-stupid-outrage-over-oriental-about/702163/245 "2014-11-06T03:24:00Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > You _can’t_ group people by race/ethnicity and not be working in a race/ethnicity-based system of thought, though. I’ll hijack my own thread to recommend [a 15-minute excerpt from a diversity training class](http://www.upworthy.com/i-never-thought-id-want-to-high-five-a-teacher-for-yelling-at-a-student-but-i-was-wrong). Among insights offered: _blacks in U.S. need and want their ethnic identity to be acknowledged_. (In the training session, blue-eyed students are “oppressed.”) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-the-stupid-outrage-over-oriental-about/702163/246 "2014-11-06T03:52:23Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I’ll hijack my own thread to recommend [a 15-minute excerpt from a diversity training class](http://www.upworthy.com/i-never-thought-id-want-to-high-five-a-teacher-for-yelling-at-a-student-but-i-was-wrong). Among insights offered: _blacks in U.S. need and want their ethnic identity to be acknowledged_. Which is obviously not true of every single dark-skinned person in the US, to forestall a possible objection by Mr. Dibble. **But we know that already**. And when people make statements like this, virtually all speakers and all listeners understand that it’s a shorthand for “the majority of…” which is why it’s not said every time. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-the-stupid-outrage-over-oriental-about/702163/247 "2014-11-06T05:49:20Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > “We”? What’s this “we” bullshit? Are you seriously going to lump everyone together instead of saying the name of each person who doesn’t have the time? Cute :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Until “we” engineer a virus that kills off 99.999% of the earth’s population (give or take a couple of 9s), “we” will never have the time to talk about each person individually. I think you misunderstand me - what I’m saying was _when you are talking about an individual_, don’t refer to them by an ethnic grouping unless it’s absolutely necessary. > [@](#): > > Sometimes it’s fine to talk about folks **according to their perceived social groups** Sometimes yes. I’ve already acknowledged this. But only if the possibility of referring to them as individuals doesn’t exist at all, IMO. > [@](#): > > Two views: > > 1. People have innate characteristics that correspond exactly to race, and some of these characteristics have social implications. > 2. Many people hold view #1 and act accordingly, and it’s affected large groups of people in similar ways, and if you make guesses about whether someone was affected by these actions **based on the skin color of the person you’re guessing about** , you’ll be right an overwhelming amount of the time. > #1 is not the same as #2. #1 buys into #2 by according it any respect at all. It’s like arguing with religionists and pretending their ideas have any coherence at all [when they don’t](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theological_noncognitivism). Just playing along with them is a fail. > [@Isamu](#): > > It is perfectly fine and Asians, in general, are perfectly fine with it. And blacks used to call themselves “Nigger” unironically all the time, too. > [@](#): > > They use the term Aisan all the time in professional settings. Just google “Asian Society” or “Asian Association”. There’s a Southern African Development Forum but I’d be silly to suggest this makes Southern African an ethnicity. > [@](#): > > Are you claiming that they are unwittingly using incorrect or offensive terminology to refer to themselves? I’m saying they could do better. > [@](#): > > Your goal may be noble but I think you are a bit out of step with reality. Reality is out of step with morality. And reality can be changed. > [@septimus](#): > > Among insights offered: _blacks in U.S. need and want their ethnic identity to be acknowledged_. And that’s fine. At no point have I claimed ethnicity doesn’t exist. Particular ethnic groupings are nonsensical, but that doesn’t negate ethnicity. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > And when people make statements like this, virtually all speakers and all listeners understand that it’s a shorthand for “the majority of…” which is why it’s not said every time. And my point is, that most of the time this is done, there’s no consideration of the minority at all. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-the-stupid-outrage-over-oriental-about/702163/248 "2014-11-06T19:01:48Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Most people stop refusing to admit it after, like, three posts. You virtually hijacked the thread defending the stupid thing you said. If you didn’t know better I wouldn’t have mentioned it at all. Stop refusing to admit what? I totally admitted that I didn’t read it. What have I stopped refusing to admit? Also, I didn’t hijack the thread. People asked me questions, or reacted to me, and I responded. Should I have just sat back and not said anything and go cry in the corner or something? This post of yours directed to me, do you think the proper response for me is to just say nothing to it? Seriously? You don’t have to like me and you could wish I would just disappear, but that doesn’t mean that the proper response to someone criticizing you is to just disappear and never respond. I think that’s much more egregious a violation of this board’s ignorance fighting theme than laziness. If someone says something to me, I reserve the right to respond If you don’t like it, don’t reply to this post [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-the-stupid-outrage-over-oriental-about/702163.md?page=12)