# WTF is the stupid outrage over "Oriental" about? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 22, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-the-stupid-outrage-over-oriental-about/702163 "2014-10-22T17:47:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-the-stupid-outrage-over-oriental-about/702163/61 "2014-10-23T00:56:46Z")
Telling a racial minority that they’re wrong for being offended at being called something always ends well… ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-the-stupid-outrage-over-oriental-about/702163/62 "2014-10-23T00:57:14Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > Conversely, I’ve only recently been training myself not to use “spaz” which has no context of bigotry for me, but is considered to be a serious slur in the UK. Same here. I had _no_ clue that “spaz” was a really rude slur in the UK until a coupleish years ago online. But like you, my reaction was to not use the word at all after that (particularly important on the internet, where you regularly interact with people from around the globe). It never would have occurred to me to feel defensive, angry, and lash out. They weren’t implying I was an asshole and a horrible person. If I didn’t know, _I didn’t know_. But the key is that from that point forward, _I knew_. Your potential assholeishness is judged by how you respond and how you act from then on. A: Blah blah [something unintentionally offensive] blah blah. B: Whoa! You might not be aware, but [SUO] is considered a slur in [Somewherevania], because [brief explanation]. DO YOU: 1- Take in this new information and work on eliminating it from your vocabulary?\* OR: 2- Take in this new information and defend your use of [SUO] because you didn’t know and it’s not offensive where _you_ are and it’s not an offensive term, dammit! And then continue to use [SUO], perhaps even purposely making sure you use it, going forward? IF YOU CHOSE 1: You are not an asshole! IF YOU CHOSE 2: You ARE an asshole! - even if you slip up occasionally. Habits can be hard to break. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-the-stupid-outrage-over-oriental-about/702163/63 "2014-10-23T01:33:30Z")
Of course, option B doesn’t seem to have occurred here. And in my experience isn’t very common overall, particularly on the internet. . ---
**Author:** ![babygoat666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2acd7d/32.png) [@babygoat666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/babygoat666)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-the-stupid-outrage-over-oriental-about/702163/64 "2014-10-23T02:22:04Z")
> [@Nema98](#): > > My mom always said that is it a very old fashioned term used to refer to Asians, and I agree. It just seems so odd, I can see describing a rug as “oriental” but a person?! > > I don’t know, I would have my eyebrows raised if someone was referred to as oriental. It’s even worse to refer to a person as “an oriental” as though it were a noun. ---
**Author:** ![mage-girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@mage-girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mage-girl)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-the-stupid-outrage-over-oriental-about/702163/65 "2014-10-23T03:19:58Z")
I pretty much exclusively use “Asian” rather than “Oriental”, but I’m sure I didn’t always. Now, if only I can teach my mom to pick up on the visual differences between people of Japanese, Korean, and Chinese ancestry. I know it’s kind of tricky, but you really don’t want to get some of those switched around. On a related note, I have been informed by my more-politically-correct friends that describing someone’s looks as “exotic” is rather offensive. I don’t–how–are we supposed to describe anyone anymore, without hurting someone’s feelings? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-the-stupid-outrage-over-oriental-about/702163/66 "2014-10-23T03:20:11Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Dude, oriental is not the preferred nomenclature. Asian-American, please. > > In all seriousness, I thought it was more of an antiquated term used by baby boomers and not so much offensive. Like referring to the negros or Mussulmen. Sorry, I am not calling my Chinese born and NOT a citizen of the US Auntie Bei Ching ‘Chinese-American’ thanks. She is offended at the whole X-American thing. If you have citizenship in the US, you are American. If you have dual citizenship, you _might_ be X-American … and then she will probably ask you why you have dual citizenship - are you ashamed of either the US or your birth country … She may happen to physically reside in the US on a green card, but she still travels under a nonRed Chinese passport and considers herself Chinese [and I have herd her use oriental in reference to herself.] ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-the-stupid-outrage-over-oriental-about/702163/67 "2014-10-23T03:33:04Z")
Phil Moscowitz, in the movie “What’s Up Tiger Lily” on spotting a hot babe, observes: “Hmmm…an Oriental.” Of course, that movie was chock full of stuff that would never fly today, including when Phil flies into a rage and starts volleying insults: “Saracen pig! Spartan dog! Take this! And this! Roman cow! Russian snake! Spanish fly! Anglo-Saxon Hun!” > [@TroutMan](#): > > If someone calls me white, they aren’t generalizing. I am actually white In which case you need a blood transfusion (or several), _pronto_. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-the-stupid-outrage-over-oriental-about/702163/68 "2014-10-23T03:39:28Z")
The word “Oriental” seems to assume that us “Far East” people can all be lumped into one category. Anyone who knows anything about Asian history knows that we all hate each other and find it insulting to be considered anything like our neighbors, thankyouverymuch. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-the-stupid-outrage-over-oriental-about/702163/69 "2014-10-23T03:52:06Z")
[Oriental.](https://horrorpediadotcom.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/fm21.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![harmonicamoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@harmonicamoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harmonicamoon)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-the-stupid-outrage-over-oriental-about/702163/70 "2014-10-23T04:14:01Z")
Not intending to hijack, but this is a very entertaining thread. Better than cable TV. Thanks y’all! ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-the-stupid-outrage-over-oriental-about/702163/71 "2014-10-23T04:58:15Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Dude, oriental is not the preferred nomenclature. Asian-American, please. > > In all seriousness, I thought it was more of an antiquated term used by baby boomers and not so much offensive. Like referring to the negros or Mussulmen. Believe me, by the time even the oldest Baby Boomers were nearly grown, “Negro” was already obsolescent in favor of Black. And “Musselmen”? Sheesh, we’re fifty or sixty years old, not 500 or 600. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-the-stupid-outrage-over-oriental-about/702163/72 "2014-10-23T05:35:19Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > Believe me, by the time even the oldest Baby Boomers were nearly grown, “Negro” was already obsolescent in favor of Black. I happen to have some of the Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr.'s most famous speeches and writing from the mid 1960’s in machine-readable form. They include [ul][li] Negro/Negroes/Negro’s - 52 times[/li][li] black - 12 times[/li][li] African-American - 0 times[/li][li]nigger, nigger-loving - 1 time each[/li][/ul] The references to “nigger” were in quotes and imitated white racist speech, but that’s untrue of any of the references to “Negro”. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-the-stupid-outrage-over-oriental-about/702163/73 "2014-10-23T06:11:38Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Sorry, I am not calling my Chinese born and NOT a citizen of the US Auntie Bei Ching ‘Chinese-American’ thanks. She is offended at the whole X-American thing. Hyphenated Americans is one of my big pet peeves because the ethnic group extends beyond the national border. I can’t help but think about my college newspaper covering Apartheid talking about African-Americans as one of the ethnic groups. That was the politically correct term for the ethnic group after all. Hyphenating just seems so American centric and offensive in other ways for those that aren’t actually American. > [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > The word “Oriental” seems to assume that us “Far East” people can all be lumped into one category. Anyone who knows anything about Asian history knows that we all hate each other and find it insulting to be considered anything like our neighbors, thankyouverymuch. I am fully aware of the biases between the various cultures. I’ve seen comments in grad school among Asian international students that in the American psyche would be close to as racist as what comes out of the mouth of someone wearing a pillowcase on their head. Doesn’t “Asian” have the same issue with lumping all the various groups together, though? It may avoid what some see as negative connotations for the all the lumped groups but it still lumps them. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > I just wondered if the Oriental market near me was all alone in the world. The one near where I used to live was even called Oriental Mart you are not alone. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-the-stupid-outrage-over-oriental-about/702163/74 "2014-10-23T06:27:06Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > What’s the usage in South Africa? I’ve never heard anyone use “Oriental” to refer to a person, and “Asian” generally is considered synonymous with “Indian” (and Pakistani) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-the-stupid-outrage-over-oriental-about/702163/75 "2014-10-23T06:28:34Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I just wondered if the Oriental market near me was all alone in the world. > > Apparently not. > > Googled Oriental market > About 875,000 results (0.38 seconds) Are they a slave market? Otherwise, what’s the relevance? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-the-stupid-outrage-over-oriental-about/702163/76 "2014-10-23T06:32:31Z")
> [@mage-girl](#): > > I don’t–how–are we supposed to describe anyone anymore, without hurting someone’s feelings? 😕 This is a radical idea, really far out there, but bear with me… maybe try asking people what term _they_ prefer? Shocking, I know. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-the-stupid-outrage-over-oriental-about/702163/77 "2014-10-23T07:30:45Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Telling a racial minority that they’re wrong for being offended at being called something always ends well… In this case its telling a racial minority that they’re supposed to be offended at being called something. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-the-stupid-outrage-over-oriental-about/702163/78 "2014-10-23T08:01:04Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > In this case its telling a racial minority that they’re supposed to be offended at being called something. Because Said, of course, wasn’t a member of that racial minority himself, and there’s no way this was actually a reactionary pushback from better-informed elements within that minority… ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-the-stupid-outrage-over-oriental-about/702163/79 "2014-10-23T09:18:45Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Your willful ignorance here is so obnoxious, lazy, arrogant, and stupid that it almost deserves its own Pit thread. +2 ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-the-stupid-outrage-over-oriental-about/702163/80 "2014-10-23T09:51:50Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Because Said, of course, wasn’t a member of that racial minority himself, and there’s no way this was actually a reactionary pushback from better-informed elements within that minority… Actually, I think Said was Palestinian, and the Arabic-speaking peoples of the Levant – the “Near East” (!) – were definitely part of the world that was “exoticized” by Europeans. The Ottoman Empire, basically, was the focus of “Orientalism” as much as China or Japan. True, by the mid-20th C., the word “oriental” had come to mean just East Asian. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-the-stupid-outrage-over-oriental-about/702163.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-the-stupid-outrage-over-oriental-about/702163.md?page=5)