# WTF is up with "Chrest/Chrestians"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 29, 2017, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129 "2017-10-29T10:00:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/21 "2017-10-29T20:06:28Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Not “in the Latin alphabet”: in English. And German. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2017, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/22 "2017-10-29T20:30:52Z")
Thomas Jefferson called them Musselmen (sp?). ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2017, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/23 "2017-10-29T20:51:32Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > Thomas Jefferson called them Musselmen (sp?). Like the applesauce! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2017, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/24 "2017-10-29T20:53:18Z")
I assume that at least some of the early sources about Jesus must have been written in Hebrew or Aramaic, languages which don’t even have vowels in their written alphabets! It would be easy to insert the wrong vowels when translating to Greek/Latin/English/Esperanto, whatever. I always assumed the word “disease” was derived from “dis - ease” (or both derived from a common earlier root). Makes sense to me. You can find lots of words like that. Another I came up with was “hideous” == “hide-ous” like an elephant, rhinoceros, or hippopotamus. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2017, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/25 "2017-10-29T20:58:39Z")
The Arabic pronunciation has a soft s, and the o sounds like in cook but not moo. Thus Moslem and Musselman. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2017, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/26 "2017-10-29T21:33:40Z")
What I meant by saying that it’s the way of spelling it in the Latin alphabet is that the word that both Moslem and Muslim comes from is a single Arabic word. The word was, of course, written in the Arabic alphabet for the Arabic speakers who used it. At some point, some speaker of a European language heard the word and wrote it down in the Latin alphabet. I don’t know the history of the derivation of the word up to the point that it reached English. It may well have passed through several European languages before reaching English. In any case, when it reached English, some people spelled it as Moslem and some spelled it as Muslim. It may have been spelled in other ways too. As you can see in the chart in one of the links I gave, Muslim passed Moslem as the most common spelling, perhaps around 1942. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2017, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/27 "2017-10-29T22:17:08Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Let us not forget the now very-uncool term “Mohammedan”, i.e. adherent of Mohammed. I recall that from 1960s and prior encyclopedias and [intro to world religions for kids] books. No love for the Musselmen? I hear they’re a lovely group of half-mollusc superheroes. ---
**Author:** ![Peanuthead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peanuthead/32/360_2.png) [@Peanuthead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanuthead)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2017, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/28 "2017-10-29T22:31:20Z")
**Chrestianity** : An ancient Roman religion founded by Tuthicus Dentinus, the inventor of dental floss. His followers, who were persecuted by the Emperor Cavitus Creepus, had to perform their rituals in secrecy. In order to recognize other Chrestians they wore tiny symbolic toothbrushes around their necks. Their ceremonies would always begin with a prayer to the venerable Saints Colgaitius, Pepsodentius, and Gleemius: ``` Chrest has been shown to be an effective decay preventive dentifrice that can be of significant value when used in a conscientiously applied program of oral hygiene and regular professional care. Amen ``` ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2017, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/29 "2017-10-29T23:49:04Z")
^ ::raucous applause:: ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/30 "2017-10-30T00:08:41Z")
> [@Peanuthead](#): > > **Chrestianity** : An ancient Roman religion founded by Tuthicus Dentinus, the inventor of dental floss. His followers, who were persecuted by the Emperor Cavitus Creepus, had to perform their rituals in secrecy. In order to recognize other Chrestians they wore tiny symbolic toothbrushes around their necks. Their ceremonies would always begin with a prayer to the venerable Saints Colgaitius, Pepsodentius, and Gleemius: > > ``` > Chrest has been shown to be an effective decay preventive dentifrice that can be of significant value when used in a conscientiously applied program of oral hygiene and regular professional care. > Amen > > ``` “New Crest Gel! New Crest Gel!” [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8Y\_vEKbZhU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8Y_vEKbZhU) ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/31 "2017-10-30T03:34:23Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > I always assumed the word “disease” was derived from “dis - ease” (or both derived from a common earlier root). Makes sense to me. You can find lots of words like that. Another I came up with was “hideous” == “hide-ous” like an elephant, rhinoceros, or hippopotamus. There is ample evidence for the first, but none for the second. “Hideous” comes from an old French word meaning “fear”, so “hideous” means “fearsome” or “scary,” while “hide” comes from old English “hydan” meaning animal skin. It’s generally a good idea not to make up your own etymologies unless you are just doing it for shits and giggles. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/32 "2017-10-30T04:07:05Z")
> [@Peanuthead](#): > > **Chrestianity** : An ancient Roman religion founded by Tuthicus Dentinus, the inventor of dental floss. His followers, who were persecuted by the Emperor Cavitus Creepus, had to perform their rituals in secrecy. In order to recognize other Chrestians they wore tiny symbolic toothbrushes around their necks. Their ceremonies would always begin with a prayer to the venerable Saints Colgaitius, Pepsodentius, and Gleemius: > > ``` > Chrest has been shown to be an effective decay preventive dentifrice that can be of significant value when used in a conscientiously applied program of oral hygiene and regular professional care. > Amen > > ``` Cavitus Creepus’ Imperial cult chanted their own holy words: > [@](#): > > Facies holes in nobis circa dentes meos! ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/33 "2017-10-30T05:57:01Z")
Only **hogarth** has mentioned an English form of Chrestian with an e — _ **cretin** _. This word is related to the French _chrétien_. > [@](#): > > cretin (n.) > 1779, from French _crétin_ (18c.), from Alpine dialect _crestin_, “a dwarfed and deformed idiot” of a type formerly found in families in the Alpine lands, a condition caused by a congenital deficiency of thyroid hormones, from Vulgar Latin \*_christianus_ “a Christian,” a generic term for “anyone,” but often with a sense of “poor fellow.” Related: _Cretinism_ (1801). ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/34 "2017-10-30T13:43:03Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > Thomas Jefferson called them Musselmen (sp?). > [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > The Arabic pronunciation has a soft s, and the o sounds like in cook but not moo. > > Thus Moslem and Musselman. > [@friedo](#): > > No love for the Musselmen? I hear they’re a lovely group of half-mollusc superheroes. I’ve never heard nor read of this “Musselman” of which you all speak. Anyone care to enlighten me? ---
**Author:** ![Telperion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telperion/32/509_2.png) [@Telperion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperion)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/35 "2017-10-30T14:30:20Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I’ve never heard nor read of this “Musselman” of which you all speak. > > Anyone care to enlighten me? It was usually spelled [mussulman](https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/mussulman), but it went out of use ages and ages ago. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/36 "2017-10-30T14:34:52Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I’ve never heard nor read of this “Musselman” of which you all speak. > > Anyone care to enlighten me? When we’re done with this we can discuss how to spell Ghaddafi. Or how Beijing became Peking. When people with limited focus on accuracy try to transliterate words from one language to another, sometimes mistakes and mispronunciations creep in… and get written down. Heck, how did Wein become Vienna? Tsar/Czar? Even between two European languages the scribos are rife. yes, I do recall seeing much older texts refer to Muslims as “Musselman”. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/37 "2017-10-30T15:15:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **LSLGuy** : > > Let us not forget the now very-uncool term “Mohammedan”, i.e. adherent of Mohammed. I recall that from 1960s and prior encyclopedias and [intro to world religions for kids] books. That usage, as well as the spelling “Mahometan” and the term “Mussulmen”, also shows up in the [Treaty of Tripoli](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli#Article_11), one of the first treaties the US ratified, within the lifetime of most of the founding fathers. It gets a lot of press nowadays for its declaration that the US was not founded as a Christian nation, and that we therefore have no religious cause of conflict with Muslim nations. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/38 "2017-10-30T15:43:03Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > Thomas Jefferson called them Musselmen (sp?). I was in error re: Jefferson. I was referring to [Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli#Article_11), which was signed by President John Adams. On second thought, Jefferson may have used the term, also, but ToT is where I got the Musselmen reference. ETA: ninja’d on ToT by **Chronos**? Oh, the shame. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/39 "2017-10-30T17:33:40Z")
Cool. Thanks all. I’d never seen that. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/40 "2017-10-30T17:36:12Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Heck, how did Wein become Vienna? That would be _Wien_ (makes a big difference in the order of vowels if you know German pronunciation. Also, “wein” means “wine.”) And it looks like the English name came from the Italian _Vienna_, which just looks like _Wien_ with an extra vowel tacked onto it (which I guess the Italian language must occasionally do, given there’s a whole lingual stereotype of Italians adding a schwa to the end of words.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129.md?page=3)