# WTF is up with "Chrest/Chrestians"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 29, 2017, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129 "2017-10-29T10:00:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/41 "2017-10-30T17:49:32Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I’ve never heard nor read of this “Musselman” of which you all speak. > > Anyone care to enlighten me? “Musselman” (pronounced “Mous Ahl Maaan”)is the Persianized version of Muslim. It is, to this day, the proper word for Muslim in Urdu and other S Asian languages. It is however for some reason seen as objectionable in Europe (less UK) and N America. Lots of Arabic Islamic terms were Persianised when they were introduced from Arabic. When Islam spread into the sub-continent it was these terms which were used, and often it is these terms which entered British English. Some are fairly similar, other are pretty different. For instance: Arabic: _S\*\*hi’ite_, Persian: _Shia_ Arabic: _Ramadan_, Persian: _Ramazan_ Arabic: \*Saalat \*(prayer), Persian: _Namaz_ Arabic: _Sawm_ (fasting), Persian: _Roza_ Until a few decades ago the Persian word for God, _Khuda_, was used more or less interchangeably with _Allah_ outside of prayer. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/42 "2017-10-30T19:33:04Z")
Come to think of it, it was a few decades ago when I was in India learning to speak Urdu, and \*Khuda _was used in everyday language. If that’s now been discarded, it must be the recent influence of fundamentalism emanating from Saudi Arabia. As far as I know, in Iran, where they successfully resist Saudi influence, they still say Khoda._ \*The vowel o is a modern Iranian innovation, where Urdu preserves the original u. Same word, though. In Urdu they say _Musalman_, while in Iran the pronunciation has shifted to _Mosalman_. The spelling remains unchanged. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/43 "2017-10-30T19:39:31Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > A scribo? I usually call it a writo. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/44 "2017-10-30T20:18:48Z")
> [@wevets](#): > > [“Latin Alphabet” and “Roman Alphabet”](https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_alphabet) are terms used to describe the alphabet English is written in, which is an alphabet shared with other languages, such as Italian, French, Spanish, German, and more. But Italian, French, Spanish, Catalan, Basque… also use the Latin alphabet and do not use those words. So saying “in the Latin alphabet” is misleading, as it makes the transliterations more universal than they are. Words exist in specific languages, not in specific alphabets. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/45 "2017-10-30T21:20:44Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Let us not forget the now very-uncool term “Mohammedan”, i.e. adherent of Mohammed. I recall that from 1960s and prior encyclopedias and [intro to world religions for kids] books. > > I never heard it spoken and could never decide for myself whether it was pronounced Mo-HAM-ed-uhn or MO-hahm-uh-Dun. Don’t forget “Musselman” and “Mussulman”, sometimes with single “s”. An alternate spelling for Mohammedan was “Mohametan”. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2017, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/46 "2017-10-30T21:57:19Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > I assume that at least some of the early sources about Jesus must have been written in Hebrew or Aramaic, languages which don’t even have vowels in their written alphabets! It would be easy to insert the wrong vowels when translating to Greek/Latin/English/Esperanto, whatever. In this case that isn’t very plausible, because Christ is not a Greek translation of an Aramaic word but is Greek itself - χριστός. There’s no ambiguity when transliterating an iota into Latin. ---
**Author:** ![caligulathegod](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caligulathegod/32/9685_2.png) [@caligulathegod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulathegod)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/47 "2017-10-31T01:11:03Z")
“Chrestus” means good. It was a common name, especially for slaves, in the Roman days. Suetonius used it, but it is unlikely to have been about Christ, as is was about an agitator who caused some riots during the reign of Claudius. I have read of Jesus having the title of “Chrestus” meaning “The Good”, though. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/48 "2017-10-31T02:10:54Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > “Musselman” (pronounced “Mous Ahl Maaan”)is the Persianized version of Muslim. It is, to this day, the proper word for Muslim in Urdu and other S Asian languages. It is however for some reason seen as objectionable in Europe (less UK) and N America. > … > Until a few decades ago the Persian word for God, _Khuda_, was used more or less interchangeably with _Allah_ outside of prayer. Thank you. That makes the whole thing make a lot more sense. I admit to far more ignorance of the region’s history and culture and language than I should accept. I’m pretty good on the events & dynamics of the last 50 years, but woefully underequipped to understand how they got to there. Time to get reading. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2017, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/49 "2017-10-31T21:30:17Z")
As long as the topic has become so intensive/extensive, worth adding is the nonce use of the word “musselman,” which thankfully had a unique time and place for its semantic purpose, but which lives on as long as history lives on: In Auschwitz, certainly, if not in other death camps, a Musselman (in Yiddish and German the same cognate as above) somehow came to mean “one who has lost all but the barest near-autonomous ability of life preservation, who shuffles vacantly and eyeless, and is already (as if) dead.” This way to the gas chambers, ladies and gentlemen, is already superfluous for them. General cites on request; no way am I going to make a research project on it. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/50 "2017-11-01T00:17:45Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > As long as the topic has become so intensive/extensive, worth adding is the nonce use of the word “musselman,” which thankfully had a unique time and place for its semantic purpose, but which lives on as long as history lives on: > > In Auschwitz, certainly, if not in other death camps, a Musselman (in Yiddish and German the same cognate as above) somehow came to mean “one who has lost all but the barest near-autonomous ability of life preservation, who shuffles vacantly and eyeless, and is already (as if) dead.” This way to the gas chambers, ladies and gentlemen, is already superfluous for them. > > General cites on request; no way am I going to make a research project on it. I saw that usage just the other month in a Turtledove novel. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/51 "2017-11-01T01:31:47Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > I saw that usage just the other month in a Turtledove novel. 😕 “Turtledove novel?” ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/52 "2017-11-01T01:33:10Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > 😕 “Turtledove novel?” Novel written by the popular author Harry Turtledove ([Harry Turtledove - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Turtledove)) ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/53 "2017-11-01T01:37:01Z")
Tell me, how was the word used—in what context? ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/54 "2017-11-01T01:38:38Z")
In the same context as above - an Auschwitz survivor describing people at the camp who had given up. > **[Muselmann](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muselmann)** > > Muselmann (German plural Muselmänner) was a slang term used amongst prisoners of German Nazi concentration camps during the Holocaust of World War II to refer to those suffering from a combination of starvation (known also as "hunger disease") and exhaustion, as well as those who were resigned to their impending death. The Muselmann prisoners exhibited severe emaciation and physical weakness, an apathetic listlessness regarding their own fate, and unresponsiveness to their surroundings owin So... ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/55 "2017-11-01T03:45:23Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > “Musselman” (pronounced “Mous Ahl Maaan”)is the Persianized version of Muslim. It is, to this day, the proper word for Muslim in Urdu and other S Asian languages. It is however for some reason seen as objectionable in Europe (less UK) and N America. Romance languages’ usual words are that one, tweaked by local pronunciation and spelling: _musulmán_ (ES), _musulmà_ (CAT), _musulman_ (FR), _musulmano_ (IT)… _Mahometano_ (of course with its variations by language) is less frequent; it gets used sparingly in order to avoid too much repetition. No words more similar to “Muslim” than to the Persian word. ---
**Author:** ![EdelweissPirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8491ac/32.png) [@EdelweissPirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdelweissPirate)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/56 "2017-11-01T04:52:50Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > In this case that isn’t very plausible, because Christ is not a Greek translation of an Aramaic word but is Greek itself - χριστός. There’s no ambiguity when transliterating an iota into Latin. No ambiguity? Not even one…oh, never mind. 😉 For what it’s worth, I fully agree that the (a) the original text is in Greek and (b) no competent student of Greek would transliterate χριστός into English as “Chrest.” OP, that’s what you get for hanging out on Quora. Those people can’t even see that “monologue” is a false etymology. Crikey! \ ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/57 "2017-11-01T19:15:50Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > “Musselman” (pronounced “Mous Ahl Maaan”)is the Persianized version of Muslim. It is, to this day, the proper word for Muslim in Urdu and other S Asian languages. It is however for some reason seen as objectionable in Europe (less UK) and N America. > > Lots of Arabic Islamic terms were Persianised when they were introduced from Arabic. When Islam spread into the sub-continent it was these terms which were used, and often it is these terms which entered British English. Some are fairly similar, other are pretty different. > For instance: > > Arabic: _S\*\*hi’ite_, Persian: _Shia_ > Arabic: _Ramadan_, Persian: _Ramazan_ > Arabic: \*Saalat \*(prayer), Persian: _Namaz_ > Arabic: _Sawm_ (fasting), Persian: _Roza_ > Until a few decades ago the Persian word for God, _Khuda_, was used more or less interchangeably with _Allah_ outside of prayer. Interesting, I was completely unaware of the term _Khuda_. Is that the term used by Christians, Zoroastrians and Jews in Persianized cultures as well? ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/58 "2017-11-01T19:19:35Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Let us not forget the now very-uncool term “Mohammedan”, i.e. adherent of Mohammed. I recall that from 1960s and prior encyclopedias and [intro to world religions for kids] books. > > I never heard it spoken and could never decide for myself whether it was pronounced Mo-HAM-ed-uhn or MO-hahm-uh-Dun. The first (or one of the first) Christian writers to engage seriously with Islam (from a critical standpoint) was John of Damascus, and he referred to Muslims as “Ishmaelites” or “Hagarenes”, to indicate their spiritual descent from Abraham’s son through Hagar. Regarding “Muslim” vs. “Moslem”, the first seems like a reasonable phonetic approximation of the way it’s pronounced, the second is a terrible approximation and I don’t know why anyone ever thought to spell it that way. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/59 "2017-11-01T20:10:59Z")
Is there any doubt that Chrestus is a real name and not just a typo? Eg I remember some… interesting epigrams by Marcus Valerius concerning Chrestina, as well as Chrestus. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2017, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129/60 "2017-11-01T20:15:29Z")
Is there any doubt that Chrestus is a real name and not always a typo? Eg I remember some… interesting epigrams by Marcus Valerius concerning Chrestina, as well as Chrestus. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-chrest-chrestians/800129.md?page=4)