# WTF is up with the ultra-orthodox Jews in Israel? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 13, 2014, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584 "2014-03-13T01:36:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584/21 "2014-03-13T20:55:59Z")
This isn’t that surprising. Religion makes people irrational, and if you’re “ultra-orthodox” you’re probably loopy-as-fuck. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584/22 "2014-03-13T21:10:43Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > This isn’t that surprising. Religion makes people irrational, and if you’re “ultra-orthodox” you’re probably loopy-as-fuck. I don’t know if the Israeli Ultra Orthodox consider a connection to the [Lubavitch Rebbe](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menachem_Mendel_Schneerson) in New York, but he was a pretty cool guy. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584/23 "2014-03-13T22:06:40Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > 1. All religious women - and not just Haredim - are exempt from service (although many choose to serve). It’s another thing that needs to be corrected, IMHO, but it’s not on the table right now. > > 2. The Hesder Yeshivas (another institution I have a problem with) are part of the Religious Zionist movement, not Haredi. Completely different people. > > 3. Their objections are legion - that we’re suppressing their faith and destroying the “world of Torah”, that the Army is full of gentiles and whores waiting to corrupt the purehearted Yeshiva boys, that they’re already in “God’s army” and thus their service is far more important than any secular soldier, that they shouldn’t be forced to serve the hated Zionist state, and more. What it really means is that they’re fucking parasites and have no intention of being anything else. > > IMHO, of course. Tell us what you really think. Come on, don’t hold back 😉 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584/24 "2014-03-13T22:41:12Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > Tell us what you really think. Come on, don’t hold back 😉 Hey, all Jewish Mothers believe that the world is full of Gentiles, whores and shiksa waiting to corrupt their sons. =) ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2014, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584/25 "2014-03-13T23:52:58Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Hey, all Jewish Mothers believe that the world is full of Gentiles, whores and shiksa waiting to corrupt their sons. > =) Oh, I know - I have a Jewish mother 🙂 She doesn’t have a son, but I have a Jewish stepmother, too - and she does have a son. 🙂 (I’m married to a goy, too…as is my sister. Luckily my mom is really pretty open-minded and likes my husband. Plus, well, parental attitudes in that department IME have been that when I was 25, the question was “is he a nice Jewish doctor?” But by the time you get solidly into your 30s, it’s more like “does he have a pulse and no criminal convictions?”) ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584/26 "2014-03-14T00:18:36Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > (I’m married to a goy, too…as is my sister. Luckily my mom is really pretty open-minded and likes my husband. Plus, well, parental attitudes in that department IME have been that when I was 25, the question was “is he a nice Jewish doctor?” But by the time you get solidly into your 30s, it’s more like “does he have a pulse and no criminal convictions?”) I was worried last year, when I started dating a non Jewish woman. I finally worked up the guts to tell my family. I expected the worst. Instead I got ecstatic “He’s dating again! He’s found a woman!” Back To The OP I’ve heard plenty of other Jews agree with **Alessan** on the UO, right down to the word parasites. ---
**Author:** ![Puzzler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d07c76/32.png) [@Puzzler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Puzzler)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584/27 "2014-03-14T00:18:37Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > > [@robert\_columbia](#): > > > > What are “Torah Scholars” primarily doing? I get that they are studying the Torah, but are they primarily working to memorize it and internalize its principles or are they producing new scholarship? E.g. are there yeshiva students right now working through dissertations on what would happen if a Jew unintentionally drinks from a bottle of milk that had been adulterated by a naughty farm worker who had exposed it to pig meat? E.g. would the drinker be guilty of a sin, and if it were a sin, what the necessary prayers would be for proper repentance? > > We don’t have the same concept of sin as Christians. > The Hebrew word is “chate”, an archery term meaning “to miss the mark.” > We did something wrong, and should go about repairing it. As to what are they actually doing – they don’t study the Torah itself, but rather the Talmud and the mountains of the religious literature surrounding it, and debate the finer points of the text. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584/28 "2014-03-14T00:25:37Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Isn’t that kind of like killer whales opposing Greenpeace? You know damn well a killer whale would eat Greenpeace activist in a heartbeat. Just like a cow would eat a vegetarian if it got the chance. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584/29 "2014-03-14T00:57:57Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > You know damn well a killer whale would eat Greenpeace activist in a heartbeat. Just like a cow would eat a vegetarian if it got the chance. [Damn straight!](http://tick.wikia.com/wiki/Man-Eating_Cow) ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584/30 "2014-03-14T01:54:16Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I’ve heard plenty of other Jews agree with **Alessan** on the UO, right down to the word parasites. So do I. The Haredim and their fellow UO are assholes. Overbreeding fundy morons who can go find another religion or another damned planet. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584/31 "2014-03-14T02:06:47Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > Oh, I know - I have a Jewish mother 🙂 She doesn’t have a son, but I have a Jewish stepmother, too - and she does have a son. 🙂 > > (I’m married to a goy, too…as is my sister. Luckily my mom is really pretty open-minded and likes my husband. Plus, well, parental attitudes in that department IME have been that when I was 25, the question was “is he a nice Jewish doctor?” But by the time you get solidly into your 30s, it’s more like “does he have a pulse and no criminal convictions?”) > [@DocCathode](#): > > I was worried last year, when I started dating a non Jewish woman. I finally worked up the guts to tell my family. I expected the worst. Instead I got ecstatic “He’s dating again! He’s found a woman!” I’ve seen this with Asian mothers too. First they want a daughter-in-law from the home country. then they want one that is Asian, then they just don’t want their child to be alone after they die. They really do love you, they just want to control you. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584/32 "2014-03-14T02:09:04Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I don’t know if the Israeli Ultra Orthodox consider a connection to the [Lubavitch Rebbe](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menachem_Mendel_Schneerson) in New York, but he was a pretty cool guy. I saw this guy on Delancey Street once. A lot of my friends had framed dollar bills with his picture on it (they got the dollar along with some words of wisdom from him on their Bar Mitzvah). I got the impression that he was a big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584/33 "2014-03-14T02:09:13Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I’ve seen this with Asian mothers too. First they want a daughter-in-law from the home country. then they want one that is Asian, then they just don’t want their child to be alone after they die. They really do love you, they just want to control you. A good friend of mine who is Indian (born here, not long after his parents immigrated) joked that his parents, who tried really, really hard to fix him up with nice Indian girls, eventually reconciled themselves to having a white daughter-in-law by saying “well, at least she has a master’s degree.” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584/34 "2014-03-14T02:25:16Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I saw this guy on Delancey Street once. A lot of my friends had framed dollar bills with his picture on it (they got the dollar along with some words of wisdom from him on their Bar Mitzvah). > > I got the impression that he was a big deal. I’ve seen video of him giving away dollar bills at religious functions. You are supposed to give then to charity, tzedakah. I have forgotten the Muslim word for it, though I have been given to understand that dogs should not be kept in houses because they will frighten away beggars. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584/35 "2014-03-14T02:52:47Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > You know damn well a killer whale would eat Greenpeace activist in a heartbeat. Just like a cow would eat a vegetarian if it got the chance. Classic straw man argument. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584/36 "2014-03-14T03:09:56Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > … Haredi hate the Zionist state? Isn’t that kind of like killer whales opposing Greenpeace? Not all Ultra-Orthodox Jews hate the state of Israel, but a sizable number of them do because they think the Jewish state should not be formed until the Messiah(Moschiach) returns. That’s why the Satmars who are IIRC, the largest Hasidic sect in the World every year hold festivals where they burn the Israeli flag. At least one Ultra-Orthodox Rabbi was part of Arafat’s PA cabinet and several even went to Ahmadinejad’s silly conference on Holocaust Denial and there were long rumors that Satmars regularly solicited donations for the PLO before it accepted Israel’s right to exist. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584/37 "2014-03-14T03:11:56Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I don’t know if the Israeli Ultra Orthodox consider a connection to the [Lubavitch Rebbe](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menachem_Mendel_Schneerson) in New York, but he was a pretty cool guy. He was a Zionist so the anti-Zionist Hasids can’t stand the Lubavitchers/Chabad. I’ll disagree with the “cool guy” part but that’s for another day and another thread. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584/38 "2014-03-14T03:15:39Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > [Israel OKs Controversial Law To Conscript Ultra-Orthodox Jews : The Two-Way : NPR](http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/03/12/289463470/israel-oks-controversial-law-to-conscript-ultra-orthodox-jews?utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=npr&utm_campaign=nprnews&utm_content=03122014) > > So they are now subject to the same burdens of citizenship as everyone else (including garden variety orthodox jews) and they threaten rebellion and violence: > > “They warned that the possibility exists that the arrest of yeshiva students could lead to civil rebellion against enlistment, violent protests and a decree from the leading haredi rabbis banning enlistment.” > > IIRC, most of the really obnoxious racist stuff that Israel is guilty of has frequently been laid at the feet of these guys who exert extraordinary political influence despite being a small minority. > > How the heck did Israel ever work up the nerve to finally cross these guys? > > How the heck did these guys get so politically powerful to begin with? What makes you think that “most” of the “racist” stuff can be laid at their feet, assuming you include anti-Arab hostility as racist? Arabs were discriminated against in Israel long before the Haredim ever became a force to be reckoned with and the most powerful racist political party, Yisrael Beiteinu, is explicitly secular and even calls for secular marriage while insisting that Israeli Arabs swear a loyalty oath or be stripped of their right to vote. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584/39 "2014-03-14T12:19:31Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Classic straw man argument. I liked. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584/40 "2014-03-14T13:20:35Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > A good friend of mine who is Indian (born here, not long after his parents immigrated) joked that his parents, who tried really, really hard to fix him up with nice Indian girls, eventually reconciled themselves to having a white daughter-in-law by saying “well, at least she has a master’s degree.” My wife is utterly convinced that my (Indian) mother likes her better now that she’s completed here master’s degree. She’s right, but I can’t _tell her_ that. :o > [@Koxinga](#): > > Classic straw man argument. Bravo. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584.md?page=3)