# WTF is up with the ultra-orthodox Jews in Israel? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 13, 2014, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584 "2014-03-13T01:36:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584/41 "2014-03-14T17:37:28Z")
One of the things that irks me is the hypocrisy. They dislike Israel, but are more than happy to accept welfare benefits.They oppose the existence of Israel, but they claim that a guy is doing more for Israel by studying than he is by soldiering. Seems like they’ll say whatever they need to in order to get what they want, which is for Israeli society to contribute to them without them having to contribute to Israeli society. Their holier-than-thou claims don’t excuse that. I’m generally in favor of welfare benefits for citizens of a country, and I don’t claim to be able to judge whether an individual is genuinely in need or if they just don’t want to work. In this case, however, a community is willfully choosing to live on welfare benefits instead of working. This should not be tolerated. Is there any evidence that the Talmud condones leeching off of society? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584/42 "2014-03-14T17:41:32Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > Is there any evidence that the Talmud condones leeching off of society? It clearly condones the existence of rabbis, who are not productive members of society unless you accept that spirituality confers some sort of benefit. On that basis, it’s not really fair for anyone but the irreligious to complain about the Haredi leeching. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584/43 "2014-03-14T18:04:23Z")
[QUOTE=Green Bean] Is there any evidence that the Talmud condones leeching off of society? [/QUOTE] Actually, later authorities than the Talmud have taken the position that it is work than to be supported by charity. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It clearly condones the existence of rabbis, who are not productive members of society unless you accept that spirituality confers some sort of benefit. On that basis, it’s not really fair for anyone but the irreligious to complain about the Haredi leeching. Well, to be fair, we support scholars in any number of fields. And, if there is going to be a Jewish community that follows halacha (Jewish law), then you need those well-versed in it to render decisions on matters both large and small. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584/44 "2014-03-14T21:10:18Z")
I was driving home this evening and caught the last part of a story on All Things Considered about some orthodox Jewish sect [full of ravers](http://www.npr.org/2014/03/14/290106644/israels-orthodox-ravers-are-on-a-holy-mission-to-dance). So, what’s up with these Na Nachs? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2014, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584/45 "2014-03-14T23:23:56Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > I was driving home this evening and caught the last part of a story on All Things Considered about some orthodox Jewish sect [full of ravers](http://www.npr.org/2014/03/14/290106644/israels-orthodox-ravers-are-on-a-holy-mission-to-dance). So, what’s up with these Na Nachs? They seem to have invented themselves a religious duty to par-tay. Long as they don’t hook up with the Beastie Boys, it should be fine. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2014, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584/46 "2014-03-15T00:41:49Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I’ve seen video of him giving away dollar bills at religious functions. > You are supposed to give then to charity, tzedakah. I have forgotten the Muslim word for it, though I have been given to understand that dogs should not be kept in houses because they will frighten away beggars. If you’re supposed to give them away to charity, I don’t think anyone ever does. They might make a contribution to charity (aren’t you supposed to do that as part of your bar mitzvah or something, at least it seems common enough) but they keep the one they got from Rabbi Schneerson (I’m pretty sure they are the ones that glue his face to the dollar bill too (in the place where the president’s face is). > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > What makes you think that “most” of the “racist” stuff can be laid at their feet, assuming you include anti-Arab hostility as racist? I was confused. > [@Kobal2](#): > > They seem to have invented themselves a religious duty to par-tay. Long as they don’t hook up with the Beastie Boys, it should be fine. Didn’t the Christians do this in early Christianity, they were called the hedonists. Good times. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2014, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584/47 "2014-03-15T00:55:52Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > I was driving home this evening and caught the last part of a story on All Things Considered about some orthodox Jewish sect [full of ravers](http://www.npr.org/2014/03/14/290106644/israels-orthodox-ravers-are-on-a-holy-mission-to-dance). So, what’s up with these Na Nachs? My name is Nachman and I stutter. ---
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2014, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584/48 "2014-03-15T00:59:58Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > So, what’s up with these Na Nachs? Ask [Karl Pilkington](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-xSzOd4y8U). (NSFW) ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2014, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584/49 "2014-03-15T02:18:53Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Didn’t the Christians do this in early Christianity, they were called the hedonists. Good times. Noted Terminator prototype Rasputin had an interesting take on it, too. His thought process apparently went : having a good time is a sin. Jesus died to absolve me of my sins. If I do not sin, Jesus died in vain. I \*must \*turn my sinning to 11 to honour Jesus. Party on, Garth ! ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584/50 "2014-03-15T18:49:00Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > … Haredi hate the Zionist state? Isn’t that kind of like killer whales opposing Greenpeace? Seem more like whales opposing the ocean. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584/51 "2014-03-15T19:59:08Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > I was driving home this evening and caught the last part of a story on All Things Considered about some orthodox Jewish sect [full of ravers](http://www.npr.org/2014/03/14/290106644/israels-orthodox-ravers-are-on-a-holy-mission-to-dance). So, what’s up with these Na Nachs? Didn’t Weird Al do that first? ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584/52 "2014-03-16T18:49:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Lobohan > This isn’t that surprising. Religion makes people irrational, and if you’re “ultra-orthodox” you’re probably loopy-as-fuck. > [@](#): > > … the Lubavitch Rebbe in New York …was a pretty cool guy Yeah, the Rebbe was a pretty cool guy when he was alive. But nowadays, a lot of his disciples are loopy-as-fuck . 🙂 Many of them believe that he is the Messiah, and is still alive. see : [Chabad messianism - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chabad_messianism) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584/53 "2014-03-16T19:59:50Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Yeah, the Rebbe was a pretty cool guy when he was alive. > But nowadays, a lot of his disciples are loopy-as-fuck . 🙂 A veritable Judgement of Solomon. =) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-up-with-the-ultra-orthodox-jews-in-israel/683584.md?page=2)