# WTF is wrong with you, conservative America?!?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [February 19, 2011, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896 "2011-02-19T08:16:24Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 13
### Author:  [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2011, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/241 "2011-02-22T21:51:40Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#):
>
> Your tax burden is lower than it has been in 60 years. I get the impression that you would gripe about your taxes being too high no matter how much they were cut.
Well, I’m not that old, and was only talking about the last ten years as I mentioned earlier. So your point, not that I even recognize one, would seem irrelevant AFAIK. Was your point that I’m griping about paying taxes? OK, _BIG_ surprise there. Makes me really unusual in that respect, I suppose. :rolleyes:
What are you complaining (or is the preferred term griping?) about - that you are not getting enough of your fair share of the taxes I pay?
Gripe (or complain) away.
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### Author:  [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/242 "2011-02-22T21:57:43Z")
Taxes are at the lowest since Eisenhower. Our financial problems are due to low revenue not too much spending. But people who are not too bright will grab the right wing rhetoric like a commandment.
Cutting every single social program will not balance the budget. Therefore we need to raise taxes. Closing corporate loopholes would be a good start. Many of our largest corps pay no taxes at all. That is because they pay politicians to slip riders into big bills .
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2011, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/243 "2011-02-22T21:59:14Z")
> [@Nadir](#):
>
> Well, I’m not that old, and was only talking about the last ten years as I mentioned earlier.
You are paying a lower tax rate than you did ten years ago. That was my point.
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### Author:  [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2011, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/244 "2011-02-22T22:13:35Z")
Bzzzzzt, wrong. I was making about 68% less than I am now. I paid more in taxes last year than my wife GROSSED. She works full time, not minumum wages either. Yet I now receive less in the form of community/government services, quantity and quality of public schooling for my children, public facilities, infrastructure, transportation and various other sundry collective resources I may wish to avail myself of, provided through my taxes.
Sorry, but the cost vs. benefit of this crap has gotten to completely stink during my lifetime. My kids can’t even play sports at school now without a big personal subsidy to some commercial sponsor directly from ME PERSONALLY.
So that’s what’s wrong this particular conservative American at this time. You can trot out all the graphs and statistics and historical tax rates all you want. It’s just another layer of hogwash on top of what I live with day in and day out.
So FUCK all you bastard liberals that are wasting my money and ruining my kid’s future!
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### Author:  [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2011, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/245 "2011-02-22T22:19:18Z")
You should vote for Republicans. They’ll get right to fixing all that for you. Relieving the plight of the common man is what they’re all about, after all.
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### Author:  [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2011, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/246 "2011-02-22T22:23:10Z")
Value for the dollar, bud. That’s all I want. No “plight” here.
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### Author:  [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2011, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/247 "2011-02-22T22:28:06Z")
> [@Nadir](#):
>
> Bzzzzzt, wrong. I was making about 68% less than I am now. I paid more in taxes last year than my wife GROSSED. She works full time, not minumum wages either. Yet I now receive less in the form of community/government services, quantity and quality of public schooling for my children, public facilities, infrastructure, transportation and various other sundry collective resources I may wish to avail myself of, provided through my taxes.
>
> Sorry, but the cost vs. benefit of this crap has gotten to completely stink during my lifetime. My kids can’t even play sports at school now without a big personal subsidy to some commercial sponsor directly from ME PERSONALLY.
>
> So that’s what’s wrong this particular conservative American at this time. You can trot out all the graphs and statistics and historical tax rates all you want. It’s just another layer of hogwash on top of what I live with day in and day out.
>
> So FUCK all you bastard liberals that are wasting my money and ruining my kid’s future!
Are you stupid? Are you even able to think? Okay, slow down and focus. You would have been paying more taxes if you made the same amount back then. The fact that you make more money now, doesn’t mean you’re being taxed more as far as tax policy goes.
Can your defective, disordered mind lock on to that thought? You honestly might not understand how to reason. Shit. That’s impressive.
---
### Author:  [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2011, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/248 "2011-02-22T22:31:07Z")
Anybody else?
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2011, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/249 "2011-02-22T22:36:22Z")
> [@Nadir](#):
>
> Bzzzzzt, wrong. I was making about 68% less than I am now.
So what? You do know the difference between a tax rate and the amount of tax you pay? Or were you home schooled?
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### Author:  [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2011, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/250 "2011-02-22T22:36:25Z")
> [@Nadir](#):
>
> Anybody else?
Rather than fixing your stupidity you revel in it. Just another moron conservative too stupid to understand reality. Have fun living in your childish fantasy.
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### Author:  [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2011, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/251 "2011-02-22T22:40:46Z")
I just _knew_ this would be a good thread for this purpose! 🙂
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### Author:  [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2011, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/252 "2011-02-22T22:43:30Z")
Trolling?
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### Author:  [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2011, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/253 "2011-02-22T22:44:33Z")
> [@Nadir](#):
>
> Anybody else?
No, I’m pretty sure you’re the only one who doesn’t understand it.
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### Author:  [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2011, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/254 "2011-02-22T22:46:36Z")
> [@Gyrate](#):
>
> No, I’m pretty sure you’re the only one who doesn’t understand it.
Maybe then you’d care to take a crack at explaining to me what’s wrong with conservative America?
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### Author:  [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2011, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/255 "2011-02-22T22:49:08Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#):
>
> Trolling?
By your screen name I’d suspect you are in your mid 40’s, single, maybe divorced, smoker, about 80lbs overweight? In the ballpark there, lady?
As long as we’re just guessing about each other, you don’t mind, do you? 😃
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### Author:  [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2011, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/256 "2011-02-22T22:49:32Z")
> [@Nadir](#):
>
> Maybe then you’d care to take a crack at explaining to me what’s wrong with conservative America?
You. Ignorance is king. Ideology is fact. And angry, petty little shits like you think they’re so important they shouldn’t have to pay taxes.
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### Author:  [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2011, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/257 "2011-02-22T22:50:26Z")
> [@Nadir](#):
>
> Bzzzzzt, wrong. I was making about 68% less than I am now. I paid more in taxes last year than my wife GROSSED. She works full time, not minumum wages either. Yet I now receive less in the form of community/government services, quantity and quality of public schooling for my children, public facilities, infrastructure, transportation and various other sundry collective resources I may wish to avail myself of, provided through my taxes.
>
> Sorry, but the cost vs. benefit of this crap has gotten to completely stink during my lifetime. My kids can’t even play sports at school now without a big personal subsidy to some commercial sponsor directly from ME PERSONALLY.
>
> So that’s what’s wrong this particular conservative American at this time. You can trot out all the graphs and statistics and historical tax rates all you want. It’s just another layer of hogwash on top of what I live with day in and day out.
>
> So FUCK all you bastard liberals that are wasting my money and ruining my kid’s future!
You really can not understand programs were cut when tax revenue made them impossible to sustain? You probably also don’t understand it was done deliberately to rile people into thinking they were getting screwed by too costly programs. Figure it out, taxes were cut and school programs were eliminated.
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### Author:  [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2011, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/258 "2011-02-22T22:57:02Z")
> [@Nadir](#):
>
> Anybody else?
I’ll jump in, because at least I can give you a reasonable rebuttal without resorting to name-calling like the other lunatics here love to do.
I’m a libertarian fiscal conservative. I’d like government to be much smaller, and for taxes to be lower.
However… At this point, the recession has caused the government to lose a huge amount of revenue, right at the time when entitlement spending is starting to explode. This, plus the ill-conceived stimulus and the big budget increases Obama pushed through for FY2010 and 2011 have caused a massive deficit which is threatening America’s future and also threatening its security as it is giving China too much control over U.S. policy.
That is the problem of your era - the huge gap between government receipts and government outlays. Sure, it would be nice to correct that with spending cuts alone, but let’s be realistic - so far, the ‘radical tea party’ Congress has only managed to come up with 100 billion in proposed budget cuts in a 3.7 trillion dollar budget. The budget cuts being proposed for next year amount to less than 10% of the _deficit_. And even at that miniscule rate of cutting, liberals like most of the people here are using words like _draconian_ to describe them. So I have no faith at all that you’re going to see the deficit eliminated through budget cuts.
With the budget being as far out of whack as it is, it is simply foolish to cut taxes more right now. It’s also foolish to increase spending. What has to happen is that a 1.6 trillion dollar hole in the budget has to be fixed, either through spending cuts, tax increases or both. Economic growth might reduce it by half, IF the economy really starts firing again. But that only buys you a few years before the baby boom retirement bulge pushes the deficit right back up again. You’re in a horrific mess.
Don’t fall for the Republican canard that all tax cuts are self-funding, either. That is certainly true for extremely high tax rates, but not a single economist believes that tax cuts in the current low-tax environment will be self-funding. I don’t even think they’ll add to growth at all, because the deficit is a bigger brake on the economy than are taxes at this time.
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### Author:  [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2011, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/259 "2011-02-22T23:02:29Z")
> [@gonzomax](#):
>
> Figure it out, taxes were cut and school programs were eliminated.
(Recent History) In our school district the mil levy went up 5 out of 8 years we’ve lived here, including 3 over-rides for big bond issues to build new schools and the teachers are still underpaid. And programs were cut. And I buy all the supplies. etc. etc.
I believe that would be defined as the opposite what you said, gonzo, strictly speaking. What the Fuck are my taxes paying for? A wasteful bunch of liberal school board assholes and administrators who think buying the most expensive computers available and taking extra days off while my kids are at home learning nothing is the way to fiscal efficiency and better education - that’s what.
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [February 22, 2011, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/260 "2011-02-22T23:08:59Z")
> [@Nadir](#):
>
> Maybe then you’d care to take a crack at explaining to me what’s wrong with conservative America?
People who think taxes are currently too high?
People who think Obama raised their taxes?
People who cannot grasp the difference between the RATE of tax and the GROSS amount of tax?
People who don’t want to be educated on the above, and prefer to maintain their misconceptions because it feels right in their gut to complain about high taxes and lazy public servants?
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