# WTF is wrong with you, conservative America?!?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [February 19, 2011, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896 "2011-02-19T08:16:24Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 7
### Author:  [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2011, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/121 "2011-02-21T17:18:58Z")
> [@nocturnal\_chewing\_gum](#):
>
> Government spending…If my neighbor needs something and I can afford to help him, I am right there with a smile on my face, but if I don’t have it, I don’t have it. Going into debt will not help either of us in the long run.
>
> I actually don’t even know whether I am mostly left or mostly right or just muddling up the middle, but I don’t have to listen very long to see that both sides have very legitimate concerns.
You go into debt to finance things that give you large benefit immediately that you can’t afford to fund immediately. Things like a house. Government needs to be able to do this too, especially in bad times. Conservatives won’t allow using the surplus to for rainy day funds and in general.
The major issue I have with conservatives consists of two major factors. The primary one is the the conservative leadership has been on a no compromise kick for several years. The second is that the conservative movement is moving to the right and claiming that the motion is due to liberals moving to the left.
I had an unbroken record of voting for at least some conservatives in every election for the past 30 years. Unless the GOP changes their ways, they will not get a single vote for the foreseeable future.
---
### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/122 "2011-02-21T17:26:28Z")
> [@nocturnal\_chewing\_gum](#):
>
> At what point will left leaning people actually look past Glenn Beck and Ann Coulter and realize that there are some intelligent people on the other side with very real concerns. Right leaning people need to do the same, but this board seems majority left. A few points..
I’m sure there are some, even many Republicans who are intelligent people who are willing to discuss policy issues reasonably, and are willing to compromise, the WHOLE POINT of the OP is that these folks have become drowned out by the rise of the idiots who DO listen to Beck, Coulter, Rush et al. There is a SIGNIFICANT percentage who have bought into the birther’s lies. There are many, many who think Obama is a socialist muslim, who want’s to destroy the country. They are not a tiny fringe group. They are a large, significant part of the GOP
Simply saying “there are intelligent people on the other side with very real concerns.” begs the real question: “why are there so few of these people?”
> [@nocturnal\_chewing\_gum](#):
>
> Abortion…while I am against abortion, especially after the first trimester, I am a huge supporter of Planned Parenthood. The fact is that PP is where teens go to avoid pregnancy. It’s where I got my birth control back in the 70’s and it’s still dispencing the pill without parental permission which is crucial to preventing unwanted pregnancies in the first place.
Terrific. You are one of the intelligent GOPers with valid concerns. But why then does your party appear to want to destroy Planned Parenthood? I think you need to take your party back from the idiots that the OP refers to.
> [@nocturnal\_chewing\_gum](#):
>
> Unions…I am actually a proud union member, but I have watched my state lose a lot of jobs due to unreasonable union demands. .
I would guess that this means you don’t want to see unions destroyed, but rather you’d like to see unions work more effectively with common sense. Do you then agree with what is happening in Wisconsin at the moment? Are the government’s actions there productive?
> [@nocturnal\_chewing\_gum](#):
>
> Health care…I don’t like the bill the way it is written, but it is just common sense that ANY health care coverage for people that don’t currently have it is going to be cheaper than those same people getting all their medical care at emergency rooms.
Again, this is an intelligent opinion of yours. But contrast it with what we hear from a large number of Republican Supporters: "OBAMACARE IS EVIL! It will destroy the country! It will cost too much (please ignore the actual figures) Keep your government hands off my Medicare!
> [@nocturnal\_chewing\_gum](#):
>
> I actually don’t even know whether I am mostly left or mostly right or just muddling up the middle, but I don’t have to listen very long to see that both sides have very legitimate concerns.
I think you are an intelligent person who thinks about the issues carefully and wants what is best for your country. If there were more like you, the OP would not have anything to say.
Unfortunately, you are in the minority. The OP is about the increasing number of people on the right who have thrown facts and reality out the window, and are simply repeating a bunch of crap about how the “other side” is evil.
Or they are like our friend **marshmallow** who eschews facts and logic:
> [@](#):
>
> Facts and logic are a threat to modern civilization and government.
You can’t even enter into a discussion with someone like this. It’s pointless to even start.
---
### Author:  [@Mr.Svinlesha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Svinlesha)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2011, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/123 "2011-02-21T17:42:58Z")
Originally posted by **Sam Stone** :
> [@](#):
>
> _You have my personal guarantee that anything I post here from another source will be in quote tags, with a proper link cited. You also have my guarantee that this has always been the case, despite the wingnuts on this board who stand ready to shout, “Liar! Plagiarist! Mouthpiece of the right-wing establishment!” every time they run into an argument they can’t deal with._
:dubious:
You mean, like when you posted the following:
> [@](#):
>
> \*The reality is this:
>
> The coalition had planned to have 1000 schools renovated by the start of the school year. By that time, 1500 had actually been renovated.
>
> Electicity output is now quite a bit higher than it was before the war (4350 MW, pre-war, 3500 MW).
>
> Six months ago, there were no police on duty. There are now over 40,000 Iraqi police, 7,000 in Baghdad alone. And the CPA has been thinking out of the box - they are flying thousands of Iraqis to Eastern Europe to train police en-masse in a huge ex-Soviet facility, and will have tens of thousands more police on duty in the next few months.
>
> Nearly all of Iraq’s 400 courts are open and functioning, and for the first time in its history, the judiciary is fully independent.
>
> All 22 universities and 43 technical institutes are open again, as are almost all schools.
>
> Teachers in Iraq earn 12 to 25 times as much as they did under Saddam.
> All 240 hospitals and more than 1200 clinics are open.
>
> Doctors earn eight times what they did under Saddam.
>
> Pharmaceutical distribution has gone from almiost nothing under Saddam to 700 tons in May, to a total of 12,000 tons today.
>
> 22 million vaccines have been administered to Iraqi children.
>
> The commercial life is booming. Shops are full of goods. Satellite Dishes are selling like hotcakes. The streets are clogged with cars, and they are being imported into the country by the thousands.
>
> Over 150 independent newspapers are being published.
>
> The military has been doing massive amounts of reconstruction work, using their own emergency funds and funds from Saddam’s seized assets. Hundreds upon hundreds of civil construction projects. Everything from painting schools to repairing bridges and roads.
>
> The majority of people even in the ‘Sunni Triangle’ think they are better off today, and want the U.S. to stay. Outside of the triangle, the coalition is even more popular. A huge majority of people think they’ll be better off in five years.
> Security is improving all through the country. The curfew in Baghdad has been rolled back an hour because of improving security conditions.
>
> I suggest you ignore the American media, and go right to the source material, which is where I’ve gotten most of this information from.\*
…in a [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=216495) about how well the Iraq war was going, and which later turned out to be lifted word by word from an unlinked speech by Paul Bremer?
I would remind the reader how utterly, totally, completely wrong **Sam** was regarding the Iraq invasion, from beginning to end.
Furthermore, without even bothering to dig into the info he quotes above I will give you my personal guarantee that it is 100% horseshit, as usual.
And do us all a favor please, **Sam**? Get down off that fucking smug, self-righteous high horse you rode in on, you worthless lying sack of shit.
Ohhh…and while we’re at it, can you perhaps provide a few links of us poor lefties being so overwhelmed by the superiority of your arguments that we start shouting “Liar! Plagiarist! Mouthpiece of the right-wing establishment!” at you? Judging by the context of your statement, this must happen pretty often, so, say 5 examples of such scurrilious behavior on our part would do the trick.
Thanks in advance.
---
### Author:  [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/124 "2011-02-21T18:00:30Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#):
>
> I’ll have a go:
>
> The Democrats are not left. They are center-right, at least as the rest of the Western world sees politics.
Ah, so the US only has two parties and both are on the right, neither representing the HUGE voting block that sits on the left. Seems like an untapped market, doesn’t it?
Unfortunately, the ‘left’ that you do have is the democrats. Sucks to be you if it isn’t far enough to the left to satisfy you.
Otherwise, I guess you’ll have to move to Sweden, or some similar locale, to get what you want. I’ve never understood this desire to make every place the same when all it takes is a plane ticket to go to the place where things are the way you’d like them to be.
> [@](#):
>
> If the “real” left had been in power and had crafted a health reform bill, you would be seeing a health insurance system similar to Canada.
6 months ago, I took my wife to the emergency room for an infection from a cut. It took 14 hours sitting in a waiting room to see a doctor who then told her there was nothing he could do, so she should see her regular doctor sometime in the future. Eventual resolution was a prescription for antibiotics that was delayed because the first doctor wasn’t going to do anything and took far longer to cure because of it. Over the years, I have never been in an emergency room for less than 4 hours before I could see a doctor. Btw, people use the emergency room here because it is so hard to find a regular doctor. I didn’t realize this was the system any sane person would be trying to achieve.
---
### Author:  [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2011, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/125 "2011-02-21T18:05:59Z")
> [@Uzi](#):
>
> Otherwise, I guess you’ll have to move to Sweden, or some similar locale, to get what you want. I’ve never understood this desire to make every place the same when all it takes is a plane ticket to go to the place where things are the way you’d like them to be.
Ahh, the old “love it or leave it” schtick. You’re both right (ha!), but it’s important to distinguish when you’re talking about politics whether you mean left-right in America or the world (to the extent that left-right has any meaning at all, that is.)
It is the right that uses the moral relativism of American exceptionalism when talking about what Americans purportedly want. Of course they try to frame the argument in a moral absolutist stance when it’s something the American public doesn’t want, like restrictions on abortion rights.
---
### Author:  [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/126 "2011-02-21T18:13:58Z")
> [@Uzi](#):
>
> 6 months ago, I took my wife to the emergency room for an infection from a cut. It took 14 hours sitting in a waiting room to see a doctor who then told her there was nothing he could do, so she should see her regular doctor sometime in the future. Eventual resolution was a prescription for antibiotics that was delayed because the first doctor wasn’t going to do anything and took far longer to cure because of it. Over the years, I have never been in an emergency room for less than 4 hours before I could see a doctor. Btw, people use the emergency room here because it is so hard to find a regular doctor. I didn’t realize this was the system any sane person would be trying to achieve.
Ha ha! We have all that, PLUS we pay a shitload for it! A few months ago, I got to sit in the emergency room for 7 hours with a 4 year old who had put his teeth all the way through his lip. About four hours into it, after he’d finally calmed down and started dozing, I briefly considered just taking him home. Then I realized that the drool I was seeing on his chin wasn’t coming from the side of the mouth - it was coming through the hole he’d made. After my insurance kicked in some of it (we pay over $700/month for our family - that has actually gone down from what it was last year) - I received a bill for $850 from the ER. Then another $100 from our pediatrician who took out the stitches. Crappy care AND huge bills! Wheeeee!
---
### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2011, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/127 "2011-02-21T18:19:42Z")
> [@Uzi](#):
>
> 6 months ago, I took my wife to the emergency room for an infection from a cut. It took 14 hours sitting in a waiting room to see a doctor who then told her there was nothing he could do, so she should see her regular doctor sometime in the future. Eventual resolution was a prescription for antibiotics that was delayed because the first doctor wasn’t going to do anything and took far longer to cure because of it. Over the years, I have never been in an emergency room for less than 4 hours before I could see a doctor. Btw, people use the emergency room here because it is so hard to find a regular doctor. I didn’t realize this was the system any sane person would be trying to achieve.
I humbly suggest that you were an idiot for visiting an emergency room for something that WAS NOT AN EMERGENCY. An infected cut is something that you should have dealt with before it became emergent. What did you think the emerg. doctor was going to do besides give here a scrip for antibiotics? Magically cure her?
In future, please do visit your doctor - if you don’t have one, then GET ONE now. Don’t wait until you need one immediately. [HealthLink Alberta has a handy page](http://www.calgaryhealthregion.ca/doctor/index.html) that will help you find a doctor who is taking patients.
Or, instead of visiting the emergency room, which is for EMERGENCIES, visit a walk in clinic. [here is a list of 24 of them in Calgary](http://www.informalberta.ca/public/common/viewSublist.do?cartId=1001102)
I’m sorry your wife had this bad experience and a long wait. However, it was your fault for not using the system that you have properly.
---
### Author:  [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2011, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/128 "2011-02-21T18:33:47Z")
> [@Uzi](#):
>
> 6 months ago, I took my wife to the emergency room for an infection from a cut. It took 14 hours sitting in a waiting room to see a doctor who then told her there was nothing he could do, so she should see her regular doctor sometime in the future. Eventual resolution was a prescription for antibiotics that was delayed because the first doctor wasn’t going to do anything and took far longer to cure because of it. Over the years, I have never been in an emergency room for less than 4 hours before I could see a doctor. Btw, people use the emergency room here because it is so hard to find a regular doctor. I didn’t realize this was the system any sane person would be trying to achieve.
Right. Because that’s ALWAYS the way that system works. ALWAYS. Your anecdotal case is airtightly representative of any and all socialized medicine systems, around the world and the entire universe. :rolleyes:
And besides, as **Euphonious Polemic** pointed out, you had to wait so long because an infected cut is NOT. a. fucking. emergency.
---
### Author:  [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2011, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/129 "2011-02-21T18:40:07Z")
> [@nocturnal\_chewing\_gum](#):
>
> At what point will left leaning people actually look past Glenn Beck and Ann Coulter and realize that there are some intelligent people on the other side with very real concerns. Right leaning people need to do the same, but this board seems majority left. A few points..
I was a conservative since high school and up to 2000. (I voted for Nixon in '72, was a subscriber to National Review, and worked for the Conservative Party of NY in the 1966 and 1968 elections.) Your very reasonable positions would probably get you shouted down at any mainstream Republican party meeting outside of maybe Maine. The reason we have a hard time seeing beyond people like Rush is that when a high ranking Republican contradicts Rush, he has to retract. Where are the Republicans who can tell Coulter and Beck to STFU? (In hiding or Democrats, like I am now.)
I went to school in Cambridge, MA in the late '60s early '70s. One thing about the left then, and I had lots of radical friends, was that if you said that Nixon was anything but evil incarnate you’d get drummed out of the meeting. The left today is a lot broader, but not the right. Nixon started EPA, Nixon went to China - are there any right wing candidates (except maybe Romney) who would be as pragmatic?
The other thing is that many of the policies of the right have been tried, and they don’t work. We have the lowest tax rate in generations, Bush effectively reduced regulations, or ignored the ones in force (see SEC) and a disaster resulted. A rational party would look at the results and moderate their policies. That they just get more extreme either means they are idiots, or that their goals do not involve the good of the country as a whole but only the segment of it which is important to them. You decide. Think about what “starving the beast” really means for those in need.
You say you don’t take out loans for neighbors. But other Americans shouldn’t be neighbors - they should be family, no matter what their skin color, religion or income is. Maybe that is the real difference between the left and the current right. When I was a conservative, and I might have been deluded, I thought that then policies supported were honestly those that were considered the best for people as a whole. No longer.
---
### Author:  [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2011, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/130 "2011-02-21T19:26:10Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#):
>
> I humbly suggest that you were an idiot for visiting an emergency room for something that WAS NOT AN EMERGENCY. An infected cut is something that you should have dealt with before it became emergent. What did you think the emerg. doctor was going to do besides give here a scrip for antibiotics? Magically cure her?
We went to the clinic first. They sent us to the emergency room. They sent us to our doctor. It was a long weekend. The doctor had gone on vacation and no one else in his office was covering for him. The infection was in her gums.
So sorry I didn’t give you our entire medical history when posting. Fucktard.
> [@](#):
>
> In future, please do visit your doctor - if you don’t have one, then GET ONE now. Don’t wait until you need one immediately. [HealthLink Alberta has a handy page](http://www.calgaryhealthregion.ca/doctor/index.html) that will help you find a doctor who is taking patients.
And you call and you call and the doctors say that they shouldn’t be on the list anymore, or the doctor is on the other side of the city were it takes an hour to get to, assuming you are driving that is. Moron, you’ve obviously never had to use the current system.
> [@](#):
>
> I’m sorry your wife had this bad experience and a long wait. However, it was your fault for not using the system that you have properly.
Unlike you, I’m not stupid. I’ve used the system correctly. It blows and sucks.
---
### Author:  [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/131 "2011-02-21T19:35:27Z")
> [@Uzi](#):
>
> Unlike you, I’m not stupid.
I’m really not seeing it.
---
### Author:  [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2011, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/132 "2011-02-21T19:37:21Z")
> [@Uzi](#):
>
> Unlike you, I’m not stupid. I’ve used the system correctly. It blows and sucks.
As it has been mentioned before, the plural of anecdote is not data.
[http://www.globallethbridge.com/Most+satisfied+with+health+care+poll/4052565/story.html](http://www.globallethbridge.com/Most+satisfied+with+health+care+poll/4052565/story.html)
> [@](#):
>
> On one hand, most of us are well satisfied with our health care, despite the wait for some surgeries and too few doctors.
>
> But on the other, when Saskatchewanians are asked if they want that system to fall into the hands of private firms, a small number of respondents oppose this passionately, while a bigger number either accept the possibility or had no opinion on it.
>
> Assessing the results, neither Klassen nor Cam Cooper, who oversaw the survey for Sigma Analytics, were surprised almost 63 per cent of respondents said the health system is on the right track.
>
> “Some people think that isn’t right – they think there’s more people unhappy with health care,” Cooper said. “But I’ve found over several years – on the whole – there is a pretty high level of satisfaction with health care. There’s also some very strong dissatisfaction. But on the whole, people aren’t ready to start a revolution.”
---
### Author:  [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/133 "2011-02-21T19:38:56Z")
> [@Ludovic](#):
>
> It is the right that uses the moral relativism of American exceptionalism when talking about what Americans purportedly want. Of course they try to frame the argument in a moral absolutist stance when it’s something the American public doesn’t want, like restrictions on abortion rights.
The OP is whining about ‘conservative’ America. So far I’ve learned from this thread that includes both the Democrats and the Republicans. As this makes up the majority of the electorate, who actually is ‘left’ and why do they claim to speak for what Americans really want?
---
### Author:  [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2011, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/134 "2011-02-21T19:40:25Z")
> [@Lobohan](#):
>
> I’m really not seeing it.
The truly stupid rarely do.
---
### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/135 "2011-02-21T19:41:05Z")
> [@Uzi](#):
>
> We went to the clinic first. They sent us to the emergency room. They sent us to our doctor. It was a long weekend. The doctor had gone on vacation and no one else in his office was covering for him. The infection was in her gums.
> So sorry I didn’t give you our entire medical history when posting. Fucktard.
If the emergency room sent you to your family doctor, it was not an emergency,and you are responsible for abusing the system and costing us more money. And I call bullshit on your claim that NOBODY was available when your family doctor went on vacation. Their receptionist or voice mail would have told you the name of the locum covering for him/her. And if that was inconvenient for you, you should have gone to a walk-in clinic if your doctor was not available. Sorry you were too stupid to realize this. Not the fault of the system. The fault was with your stupidity.
> [@Uzi](#):
>
> And you call and you call and the doctors say that they shouldn’t be on the list anymore, or the doctor is on the other side of the city were it takes an hour to get to, assuming you are driving that is. Moron, you’ve obviously never had to use the current system.
Then you keep calling you idiot. Get a family doctor. Even if they are not conveniently located 3 blocks away. Oh, I see from above you already have one. So what do you base this inane comment of “you call and you call etc.” on? Making shit up now are we?
> [@Uzi](#):
>
> Unlike you, I’m not stupid. I’ve used the system correctly. It blows and sucks.
And has pointed out, the fact that a few brain-dead mouth breathing morons do not know how to access care that is provided does not mean that the care is not available.
---
### Author:  [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/136 "2011-02-21T19:47:31Z")
> [@Uzi](#):
>
> The OP is whining about ‘conservative’ America. So far I’ve learned from this thread that includes both the Democrats and the Republicans. As this makes up the majority of the electorate, who actually is ‘left’ and why do they claim to speak for what Americans really want?
At most, they were represented by 41 senate Democrats in the previous congress, the mess we got was the result of negotiating and compromising with the other 19 that were more conservative or in the pockets of the health care industry.
> **[Why Obama snubbed single-payer - Salon.com](https://www.salon.com/2010/03/12/single_payer/)**
>
> The right calls Obamacare "socialized medicine" anyway. So why didn't Obama push for the real thing?
> [@](#):
>
> Durbin was one of the 41 Democrats who had signed a petition calling for reconciliation to do just that, and the progressive activists behind the effort blasted him. “We need to make clear that strategy would be a major betrayal and signal to voters in an election year that Democratic politicians cannot be trusted to keep their word,” an e-mail to supporters of the Progressive Change Campaign Committee said.
>
> The public option, of course, was public enemy No. 1 for Republicans last year. The GOP falsely blasted the healthcare reform bill as “a government takeover of the healthcare system,” claiming any public insurance plan would inexorably lead to long waits, medicine shortages, crappy care – in short, Canada, or at least Canada as portrayed in Republican propaganda. (As opposed to the real Canada, where a poll last fall found most Canadians are perfectly happy with their medical system and think it’s “far superior” to what we’re stuck with in the U.S.)
>
> But it’s worth remembering that the public option – even the relatively limited one that was in the House-passed version of healthcare reform, which would have allowed providers to negotiate with the government-run insurance plan, rather than tying reimbursement rates to what Medicare pays – was a compromise to begin with. What most progressives wanted all along, of course, was a government takeover of healthcare – a single-payer system, with a public provider mostly taking the place of the private insurance companies that are now fighting tooth and nail against even this relatively mild reform bill. Given the angst the bill has caused, and the rabidity with which the GOP has proclaimed it to be a government power grab, might Democrats be wishing they’d gone for the real thing instead, and actually pushed some kind of single-payer plan all along?
So, even from those 41, even less would go for what most liberals considered that was needed, a single payer system.
---
### Author:  [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2011, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/137 "2011-02-21T19:56:24Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#):
>
> If the emergency room sent you to your family doctor, it was not an emergency,and you are responsible for abusing the system and costing us more money.
Costing you money? It is my money to spend. We went to the clinic with a problem. The clinic said they couldn’t treat it and to go to the emergency room. They thought it was important for us to do so. What part of that don’t you understand?
The emergency room thought it was an emergency, too. The triage nurse saw us and didn’t tell us to go home, but to wait. So, one doctor and one nurse have seen us up until this point and still want us to use emergency services. I would have been glad to be told to go home if it wasn’t an emergency.
Finally a doctor sees her. Orders a bunch of tests and then decides that because it is in her gums, she can’t do anything for her. Sends us home with a pat on the head.
We finally see our doctor a few days later when he comes back from vacations. He freaks and says she could have lost part of her face and gets her on antibiotics immediately. The swelling goes down and she can finally get into the dentist to have a root canal to resolve the problem.
> [@](#):
>
> And I call bullshit on your claim that NOBODY was available when your family doctor went on vacation. Their receptionist or voice mail would have told you the name of the locum covering for him/her.
Call it whatever you want. When the receptionist was called and asked who we should see with the doctor being away, she said a walk in clinic.
> [@](#):
>
> And if that was inconvenient for you, you should have gone to a walk-in clinic if your doctor was not available. Sorry you were too stupid to realize this. Not the fault of the system. The fault was with your stupidity.
At least I can read.
> [@](#):
>
> Oh, I see from above you already have one. So what do you base this inane comment of “you call and you call etc.” on? Making shit up now are we?
We have two separate doctors. It took me two years (not trying very hard admittedly) to find a doctor in this quadrant of the city. It took my wife 6 months to find a new one when she moved from the north of the city. She was trying hard.
> [@](#):
>
> And has pointed out, the fact that a few brain-dead mouth breathing morons do not know how to access care that is provided does not mean that the care is not available.
I thought the whole point of public health care was so that mouth breathers could get access to the system? Or what do you think that 30 million in the US is primarily made up of?
---
### Author:  [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/138 "2011-02-21T20:06:39Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#):
>
> At most, they were represented by 41 senate Democrats in the previous congress, the mess we got was the result of negotiating and compromising with the other 19 that were more conservative or in the pockets of the health care industry.
So, when the OP says:
[QUOTE=OP]
…nationwide abandonment of reason among seemingly so much of the Right
[/QUOTE]
He is actually referring to the majority of Americans and not just the Right.
> [@](#):
>
> [http://www.globallethbridge.com/Most...565/story.html](http://www.globallethbridge.com/Most...565/story.html)
Re: the link you posted above. Why do you think there is so much resistance in the US to public health care? It isn’t because it can’t be better than what they have, it can. It is the same reason many are for public health care in Canada even when there are big issues with it regardless of what **Dr. Polemic** wishes to believe. They would rather have the devil they know than the devil they don’t. It doesn’t help that both countries have a chip on their shoulder which makes it tough for either to admit that they might be wrong.
---
### Author:  [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/139 "2011-02-21T20:07:17Z")
> [@Uzi](#):
>
> I thought the whole point of public health care was so that mouth breathers could get access to the system? Or what do you think that 30 million in the US is primarily made up of?
Once again, delay of service does not mean that there will not be service.
I wish I had that option, but my part time job does not offer any benefits.
---
### Author:  [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)
#### Post date: [February 21, 2011, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896/140 "2011-02-21T20:15:05Z")
> [@Uzi](#):
>
> So, when the OP says:He is actually referring to the majority of Americans and not just the Right.
Meh, the support for the current status disappears once people understand how uncertain the future looks if we keep the current status.
> [@Uzi](#):
>
> Re: the link you posted above. Why do you think there is so much resistance in the US to public health care? It isn’t because it can’t be better than what they have, it can. It is the same reason many are for public health care in Canada even when there are big issues with it regardless of what **Dr. Polemic** wishes to believe. They would rather have the devil they know than the devil they don’t. It doesn’t help that both countries have a chip on their shoulder which makes it tough for either to admit that they might be wrong.
As mentioned, I would prefer to be having a system like in your country where the wrong is to offer health care to all, delays included.
Rather than the wrong I live with, that includes ignoring any symptom until it gets too late and then even going to the emergency room would not help much.
Now why this growth in my cranium not going away? Oh well, I guess it will be better to die quick.
(I wish that last bit was just a joke)
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896.md?page=6)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-is-wrong-with-you-conservative-america/571896.md?page=8)