# WTF? Otto was just banned by Ed. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 10, 2008, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-otto-was-just-banned-by-ed/462971 "2008-09-10T18:35:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-otto-was-just-banned-by-ed/462971/241 "2008-09-10T22:30:22Z")
> [@1010011010](#): > > I saw **Q.E.D.** with BANNED a while ago and wondered what that was about. Search is still appears to be disabled. > . there’s a thread in ATMB from **Tuba** announcing he’s on a one week suspension for “junior modding”, but then doesn’t clarify what that is precisely, no links to examples, I’ve got a thread in this forum asking for clarification on that. Crickets are chirping. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-otto-was-just-banned-by-ed/462971/242 "2008-09-10T22:30:38Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I haven’t posted here in something like 14 months. Have been lurking. > > Coming out of retirement for the moment, since it’s free. Damn, you finally come back and for this. I’ve mentioned you in a few threads where we were talking about departed posters we hoped would return. I really hope \*\*Ed Zotti \*\*decides to change his mind. This really does suck. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-otto-was-just-banned-by-ed/462971/243 "2008-09-10T22:31:25Z")
> [@1010011010](#): > > I saw **Q.E.D.** with BANNED a while ago and wondered what that was about. Search is still appears to be disabled. There’s a front-page post on ATMB that gives the official explanation. That’s where such things usually go (I have no idea if you knew this or not; apologies if you did). On topic, I note that on said forum, Ed closed a thread directly confronting this issue (without, as far as I can tell, banning the OP, with the remark: > [@Ed Zotti](#): > > This is not the time for this discussion. You can read this any number of ways, intent and mood-wise. I’m hoping it means that he realizes either that (a) he’s made an error, or (b) that he’s on some kind of razor edge in mood, and he wants to take some time out to reflect. I’d hate to see more folks leave. But hey, if a huge number do, hook me up with the other place. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-otto-was-just-banned-by-ed/462971/244 "2008-09-10T22:31:27Z")
To the Old Timers here it is fucking AMAZING to see Dopers who have never been in agreement on anything in any thread link arms in this one. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-otto-was-just-banned-by-ed/462971/245 "2008-09-10T22:32:39Z")
> [@Orbifold](#): > > I’ve supported the moderation policy of this site in the past, and generally still do so. And I want to make it clear that anything I say now is not meant to reflect on the usually thankless job that Jerry is doing. > > That said: Ed, that was petty, vindictive, and childish. Concur. Though, may I ask, in sympathy, why are you having such a bad day, **Ed Zotti**? (By which I mean, in case that inference is not warranted, why is today not the day to “push our luck” by making comments about the SDMB administration?) ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-otto-was-just-banned-by-ed/462971/246 "2008-09-10T22:34:11Z")
I posted another thread on this, which was understandably closed because it was redundant with this one. Here’s my (perhaps excessively) long post on the topic: > [@tim314](#): > > I’d like to start by emphasizing that I’m not one of those who habitually complain about mod actions. On the contrary, I’ve always thought the mods and admins on this board to an excellent job, and as a result this is one of the more pleasant boards on the web. In fact, I can’t recall ever complaining about a mod action . . . until today. > > In this thread, the following exchange occured: > **Otto:** And if a member of the board staff is rude to a guest outside the Pit? Will they be summarily fired and banned? > \*\*Ed Zotti:\*\*The above constitutes snark in my book, Otto. Goodbye. > > First, I’m not sure Otto’s comment wasn’t genuine (albeit expressed in a slightly snarky way). I could paraphrase his question as: “If you’re going to require a higher level of courtesy in posters’ comments to moderators, are you likewise requiring a higher level of courtesy in moderators’ comments to other posters?” That seems like a legitimate question. > > The phrasing was (mildly) snarky, sure, but so far as I know there is no stated rule against snarkiness. The thread in question said we’d be banned for whining and complaining (outside the Pit), not for being snarky. It also said we’d be banned for “making rude remarks about the staff.” While snarkiness might be mildly rude, it’s not an example of a rude remark about someone. Contrast to the explicit example given in that thread: “If you state in GD that Giraffe’s moderating is stupid, you’ll be banned.” If you want to start banning people for snarkiness (which I think is an ill-advised policy), at the very least you ought to make it clear that that’s what you’ll be doing before you start handing out bans. > > And really, compared to typical exchanges on this board that comment barely rises to the level of snarkiness. Sure, he could have said “does this mean the mods have to be more polite too?”, rather than the somewhat hyperbolic “does this mean you’ll also be banning the mods?” But frankly, you have to be pretty damn thin skinned to have been upset by that. For god’s sake, he didn’t even go so far as to say the new policy was a bad one! All I detected is some implied disapproval of treating the mods differently than everyone else. Would you also have banned me for saying “I don’t think this policy is a good idea.” (And if so, why allow comments at all?) Because that’s a stronger statement of criticism than what Otto posted. > > Look, it’s your board, and you can ban people because they’re mildly snarky, or because you disagree with their politics, or because you don’t like their username or any other reason you like. But do you really want to have a board where people have to fear banning for making even a mildly sarcastic comment to a mod? How is that compatible with the long standing practice of having the mods/admins participate in the discussions and debates alongside the other forum members? > > If you’re going to have that quick a trigger finger, I’d be genuinely scared to engage a mod in discussion in great debates for fear that my answer gets “too snarky”. I realize you’re trying to draw a distinction between criticism of mod actions and other comments, but as I said that comment above wasn’t even direct criticism, merely implied criticism. Nor was it rude in comparison to fairly standard heated disagreements in GD. It certainly is enough to make me wonder what other “surprise” bannings we’ll be seeing. > > What’s more, I sure as hell won’t ever reply to a thread in About This Message Board, since apparently any response to a policy change short of “great idea – well done!” can run the risk of a banning. If you don’t want feedback on new policies, why don’t you just make them closed stickies and not even bother allowing anyone to say anything about it? > > To be clear, I’m totally fine with a policy of “don’t insult the mods or complain about administrative decision outside of the Pit.” (But wasn’t that always the official policy?) To be honest, I think there’s too much vitriol allowed in criticism of mod actions (probably because those criticisms occur in the Pit, where vitriolic responses are standard operating procedure). But I think banning someone for choosing snarky phrasing when asking a question about an admin decision is going much to far. Otto didn’t call anyone stupid. He didn’t even explicitly say the new policy was a bad idea – he just phrased his reply in a way that suggested (without insulting anyone) that he wasn’t happy with it. > > You’re basically saying “Don’t even imply that you’re not happy with an administrative decision outside the Pit.” It’s not reasonable to expect the forum users to anticipate how seriously you’ll take something like a mildly snarky tone, or how much implied criticism you’ll read into one of our comments. And again, if you don’t want feedback on new policies, why allow replies at all? I also don’t think it was remotely clear that “no complaining about policies or insulting the mods” meant “no implied disapproval of new policies, not even in threads whose topic is those policies”. > > Anyway, I hope you reconsider. Thanks for reading this. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-otto-was-just-banned-by-ed/462971/247 "2008-09-10T22:35:21Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Barn Home kafuffle. I haven’t been paying attention. What’s the reference here? -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-otto-was-just-banned-by-ed/462971/248 "2008-09-10T22:37:46Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I haven’t been paying attention. What’s the reference here? > > -FrL- The Barn House is Ed’s new book about home renovation, and he created a new forum just to discuss it (and home renovation subjects, apparently). Some people thought that was just slightly ego-driven, especially since Ed has barely been around the board on any kind of regular basis for YEARS and suddenly he has a new book to tout and we suddenly have a new forum. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-otto-was-just-banned-by-ed/462971/249 "2008-09-10T22:38:00Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I haven’t been paying attention. What’s the reference here? As you may not have noticed, there is a new forum, “The Barn House”, for discussion of a corresponding book written by **Ed Zotti**. This forum was originally located right below The Game Room and caused much controversy; it has now been relocated to a separate, uh, superforum at the bottom, with all other forums grouped together under “Main”, which stemmed the tide of complaints somewhat. ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-otto-was-just-banned-by-ed/462971/250 "2008-09-10T22:38:08Z")
Wow, this place has gone down the toilet! Bring **Otto** back, ya tools!! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-otto-was-just-banned-by-ed/462971/251 "2008-09-10T22:39:20Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > To the Old Timers here it is fucking AMAZING to see Dopers who have never been in agreement on anything in any thread link arms in this one. Indeed, it’s sorta freaking me out. But knowing the make-up and general attitude of the members on this board (most of whom are not impressed by draconian acts and dick swinging decisions), he couldn’t have thought this would end well. And why do I have Jasper’s voice in my head? “Talking out of turn…that’s a paddlin’. Looking out the window…that’s a paddlin. Staring at my sandals…that’s a paddlin. Paddling the school canoe…oh, you better believe that’s a paddling.” ---
**Author:** ![nikonikosuru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f8ce5/32.png) [@nikonikosuru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nikonikosuru)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-otto-was-just-banned-by-ed/462971/252 "2008-09-10T22:42:27Z")
Is it just me or does the new rule have a commie feel to it? I can’t help but to hear a thick Russian accent when I read it along with babblings of “OBEY!” and “YOU LOVE THE NEW BOARD!”. This is getting pretty odd. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-otto-was-just-banned-by-ed/462971/253 "2008-09-10T22:42:30Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I haven’t been paying attention. What’s the reference here? > > -FrL- Ed’s new book- I can’t imagine you missed the whacking great big new forum he opened for discussion of it. Anyway, he got a lot of shit from **Otto** and **elbows** and some others, which he probably didn’t deserve- it is his site, after all- so the general assumption is he’s extra cranky because of that. See the “a wee bit hypocritical, Ed” thread lower down in this forum. Frankly, I’m mildly disgusted at the posters who were flinging poo over the temporary new forum (if it bothers you, don’t fucking go there, people) and even moreso at the people screaming invective at Jerry, as though that will get things moving faser somehow. I think it all got unloaded on **Otto** , and that’s patently unfair. ETA: Between this and Palinpalinpalin, maybe it’s time I took a hiatus. I’ll have to think about that. ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-otto-was-just-banned-by-ed/462971/254 "2008-09-10T22:44:08Z")
> [@nikonikosuru](#): > > Is it just me or does the new rule have a commie feel to it? I can’t help but to hear a thick Russian accent when I read it along with babblings of “OBEY!” and “YOU LOVE THE NEW BOARD!”. This is getting pretty odd. In soviet SDMB… nevermind. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-otto-was-just-banned-by-ed/462971/255 "2008-09-10T22:46:18Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > BTW, my daughter is due the week before Christmas. 🙂 Another reason to restore him: Otto brings fertility! ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-otto-was-just-banned-by-ed/462971/256 "2008-09-10T22:46:23Z")
Short version of my post above: - I don’t normally have any problem with how the mods here do things. On the contrary, I think they do a great job. - I don’t have any problem with a rule against complaining about mod decisions (outside the Pit) and against insulting the mods (outside the Pit). Not only do I not have a problem with it, but I thought this _already was the rule_. - However, I don’t support a policy of banning users for asking mildly snarky questions in response to policy changes. - Even if that _is_ the new SDMB policy, I don’t think that was clearly communicated by the initial announcement. Unless there are some other private warnings I don’t no about, it seems like **Otto** was banned for breaking some “secret rule”. He certainly didn’t complain about policy (he merely asked a question which perhaps _implied_ dissatisfaction with the policy, and I think even that is open to interpretation.) Nor did he say anything rude about the mods. Asking if a mod who behaves inappropriately will be banned doesn’t amount to saying “Mods are stupid” or some such. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-otto-was-just-banned-by-ed/462971/257 "2008-09-10T22:46:41Z")
Speaking as somebody who has also had a very bad day today, I hope Ed will reconsider the banning, perhaps commute it to a suspension, when things look brighter. If I had had a normal (or at least normally bad) day, I’d probably be piling on Ed too right now. The banning was unjustified. But I think we’ve all seen been there with bad days, and maybe made decisions we regret later. I’d be willing to bet Ed reconsiders when things get better. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-otto-was-just-banned-by-ed/462971/258 "2008-09-10T22:46:51Z")
Jeezes Fucking Christ Ed can go fuck himself with a needle-coated toilet plunger. Actually, he probably has one already up there. If that’s the case, tomndebb should pull it out and they can both take turns sucking it. I miss the way the SDMB used to be, not so much anymore. This place hasn’t exactly been a cavalcade of gripping, thought-provoking threads of late. Ed’s childish behavior broke the “Don’t be a jerk” rule, and many mods have been far more snarky to members than **Otto** was with his legitimate question. I think I’ll venture off to the alternative boards I’ve, found. At least until **Otto** is restored, maybe longer. ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-otto-was-just-banned-by-ed/462971/259 "2008-09-10T22:48:59Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Yes. I think he’s in the top five of jerks on the board. > Now that I’m not a mod, I mostly don’t think of you at all. 🆒 > 😃 **Frank** , you ignorant slut.😃 You know I got love for you, as you’ve saved my sorry ass many times. If that’s the way you see it, I got nothing else to say. You have a happy day, now. ---
**Author:** ![nikonikosuru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f8ce5/32.png) [@nikonikosuru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nikonikosuru)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-otto-was-just-banned-by-ed/462971/260 "2008-09-10T22:51:34Z")
> [@alterego](#): > > In soviet SDMB… nevermind. 😃 In soviet SDMB, board quits you! 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-otto-was-just-banned-by-ed/462971.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-otto-was-just-banned-by-ed/462971.md?page=14)