# WTF? Pay Up or We Let Your House Burn Down? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 6, 2010, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210 "2010-10-06T03:08:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/341 "2010-10-11T19:30:17Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > 1. The fire was the result of Cranick’s inaction, not the fire fighters. Actually his action in starting the original fire and his inaction to keep it safely away from the house. He’s all sorts of responsible for his house catching fire. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/342 "2010-10-11T19:35:12Z")
The correct way to deal with this would’ve been to say to the people, okay we’ll put out the fire and we’ll accept your fee, but then to make it publically known that this would not happen again. Okay the fire service needs the fees to fund it’s ‘out of area missions’ (the fact that there are some areas not covered by fire services is a whole other issue), but it’s hard to see what it gained in this instance except a lot of negative publcity. A flexible approach generally acheives more. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/343 "2010-10-11T19:37:55Z")
I.e. if your going to put yourself in the middle of a shitstorm of criticism, make sure the gains are worth the shitstorm. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/344 "2010-10-11T19:43:17Z")
> [@These are my own pants](#): > > The correct way to deal with this would’ve been to say to the people, okay we’ll put out the fire and we’ll accept your fee, but then to make it publically known that this would not happen again. They did the first time. This time was the second time. You know, the time that this would not happen again? ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/345 "2010-10-11T19:43:43Z")
> [@These are my own pants](#): > > The correct way to deal with this would’ve been to say to the people, okay we’ll put out the fire and we’ll accept your fee, but then to make it publically known that this would not happen again. > > Okay the fire service needs the fees to fund it’s ‘out of area missions’ (the fact that there are some areas not covered by fire services is a whole other issue), but it’s hard to see what it gained in this instance except a lot of negative publcity. A flexible approach generally acheives more. You are 100% correct, and that is exactly what the fire department did. For those that weren’t aware, Cranick has done this before. He failed to pay, his house caught on fire, and the fire department said, “we’ll put it out, but know that this won’t happen again.” So here were are the second time. Given that they already said, “don’t do it again” what are they supposed to do? Reminds me of that old joke about British cops, “Stop, or I’ll ask you to stop again!” ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/346 "2010-10-11T19:47:00Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > For those that weren’t aware, Cranick has done this before. I wish I had a dollar for every time this has been pointed out in this thread and the others. Then I could hire someone to go to the home of every person we’ve had to say it to and scream in their ears, “ARE YOU ILLITERATE OR JUST RETARDED?” ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/347 "2010-10-11T19:48:37Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > > [@These are my own pants](#): > > > > The correct way to deal with this would’ve been to say to the people, okay we’ll put out the fire and we’ll accept your fee, but then to make it publically known that this would not happen again. > > > > Okay the fire service needs the fees to fund it’s ‘out of area missions’ (the fact that there are some areas not covered by fire services is a whole other issue), but it’s hard to see what it gained in this instance except a lot of negative publcity. A flexible approach generally acheives more. > > You are 100% correct, and that is exactly what the fire department did. > > For those that weren’t aware, Cranick has done this before. He failed to pay, his house caught on fire, and the fire department said, “we’ll put it out, but know that this won’t happen again.” > > So here were are the second time. Given that they already said, “don’t do it again” what are they supposed to do? > > Reminds me of that old joke about British cops, “Stop, or I’ll ask you to stop again!” Well I didn’t know that. In that case then I won’t criticize the fire department. It’s travesty that in the richest country in the world there are areas without a publically-funded fire service. However that is not fault of this fire department and they seemed to have behaved reasoanbly. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/348 "2010-10-11T19:49:44Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > > [@emacknight](#): > > > > For those that weren’t aware, Cranick has done this before. > > I wish I had a dollar for every time this has been pointed out in this thread and the others. Then I could hire someone to go to the home of every person we’ve had to say it to and scream in their ears, “ARE YOU ILLITERATE OR JUST RETARDED?” Why does it have to be an ‘or’ question? In fairness to me I come from a part of the world where this story has received no media coverage. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/349 "2010-10-11T19:52:10Z")
> [@These are my own pants](#): > > > [@emacknight](#): > > > > You are 100% correct, and that is exactly what the fire department did. > > > > For those that weren’t aware, Cranick has done this before. He failed to pay, his house caught on fire, and the fire department said, “we’ll put it out, but know that this won’t happen again.” > > > > So here were are the second time. Given that they already said, “don’t do it again” what are they supposed to do? > > > > Reminds me of that old joke about British cops, “Stop, or I’ll ask you to stop again!” > > Well I didn’t know that. In that case then I won’t criticize the fire department. It’s travesty that in the richest country in the world there are areas without a publically-funded fire service. However that is not fault of this fire department and they seemed to have behaved reasoanbly. Well, it’s not exactly a travesty. They did have a publically-funded system, except the public in this case was given a CHOICE whether or not to participate. Cranick wasn’t, and still isn’t the only person to have made that choice. BTW Has anyone bothered to pony up the $75 for all the other people in his area that refuse to pay? Right now, there are other people in his area that refused to pay the $75, what should happen to their homes? ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/350 "2010-10-11T19:55:44Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The county had a lot of ways to collect the 75 bucks. They could have saved the house and sent him a larger bill.They could have fined him. If the courts would allow the fire department to fine him after the fact, then what’s to stop LawnsRUs from coming by and fertilizing your lawn, sending you a bill for it, and then later issuing you a “fine” for non-payment? I tell you what stops them from doing it: the courts. You can’t just make up laws and fines in this country and expect them to be enforceable. > [@gonzomax](#): > > The neighbor offered to pay even more to save the home and animals.Cranick offered to pay on the spot , and pay more. So quit the BS about the money. It is ALL about the money. The program was modeled like an insurance policy where many people pay into the fund under the expectation that only a few will actually need it. In order to get service, you have to sign up BEFORE a disaster happens. Because if they allow people to sign up for coverage once a disaster unfolds, then no one would sign up (and pay) UNTIL a disaster happened. And then there’d be no MONEY to fund the one disaster that the entire pot of money was supposed to cover. “Hey, I know I’m not a member of AAA yet, but I have a flat tire and I’m out in ButtFuck, Iowa and need a tow 80 miles away. So I’d like to sign up now for your elite service that provides a free tow within 100 miles.” “Hello. My name is Gonzomax and a tornado is raging outside. So I’d like to sign up for homeowner’s insurance. I’d be happy to pay the $200 premium right now. In fact, I’ll get my credit card right now.” “Hi. I’ve just been diagnosed with terminal cancer and would like to buy a $1 million life insurance policy.” ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/351 "2010-10-11T20:06:31Z")
> [@These are my own pants](#): > > In fairness to me I come from a part of the world where this story has received no media coverage. In fairness to you, you just posted in a thread that repeatedly gave the information you’re missing, on a board that has more than one other thread that also gives the information you’re missing. Read before you post, or brace yourself for mockery when it turns out that you didn’t know something important through your own laziness. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/352 "2010-10-11T20:15:46Z")
Here’s the part of this story that leaves me scratching my head. I get the situation with the county, the homeowner, the opting out, the previous experience, etc. Got it. Thing is, I’ve known a few firemen and a couple of volunteer firemen, and to a one, not with a pistol pointed at them, could you keep them from fighting a fire, before them, if they had the means. Where I live, they’d have been paying the fee on the spot, out of their own pocket, for the dude, if need be. But I don’t believe they’d have stood by and watched, truly, even if ordered to do so by a superior. Nor do I believe they’d be able to fire someone for defying such an order, just can’t see it happening. I find this part really baffling. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/353 "2010-10-11T20:17:08Z")
> [@These are my own pants](#): > > In fairness to me I come from a part of the world where this story has received no media coverage. Olbion County? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/354 "2010-10-11T20:44:28Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > > [@These are my own pants](#): > > > > In fairness to me I come from a part of the world where this story has received no media coverage. > > In fairness to you, you just posted in a thread that repeatedly gave the information you’re missing, on a board that has more than one other thread that also gives the information you’re missing. Read before you post, or brace yourself for mockery when it turns out that you didn’t know something important through your own laziness. Take thy head from out of thine arse ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/355 "2010-10-11T21:17:22Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Here’s the part of this story that leaves me scratching my head. I get the situation with the county, the homeowner, the opting out, the previous experience, etc. Got it. > > Thing is, I’ve known a few firemen and a couple of volunteer firemen, and to a one, not with a pistol pointed at them, could you keep them from fighting a fire, before them, if they had the means. > > Where I live, they’d have been paying the fee on the spot, out of their own pocket, for the dude, if need be. But I don’t believe they’d have stood by and watched, truly, even if ordered to do so by a superior. Nor do I believe they’d be able to fire someone for defying such an order, just can’t see it happening. > > I find this part really baffling. I agree, it is very weird that they were _disciplined_ enough to follow orders. Which I think makes Cranick’s behavior all the more deplorable. Fire fighters were willing to risk their lives, money, and jobs, but he couldn’t be bothered to cough up $75. The US is one of the few countries left that still has the death penalty. A policy that says, “if you fuck up, the punishment is death.” No one after the facts blames the staff involved that pulls the switch. And no, what Cranick did wasn’t equivalent to murder, point is that there are consequences to our actions (or in-actions). So if on the sliding scale we can have death as a possible consequence, Cranick losing his house seems to fit. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/356 "2010-10-11T21:52:57Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Where I live, they’d have been paying the fee on the spot, out of their own pocket, for the dude, if need be. Yes, because \*clearly \*the house was allowed to burn because Cranick didn’t offer $75 on the spot. It was all because of that single sum of money. You fucking moron. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/357 "2010-10-11T22:49:03Z")
> [@crazyjoe](#): > > Rick, I missed the article that showed them in arrears for $575, and I scoured this thread…can you re-link it for me? Follow this link to the [article by the chief or the Union City fire dept](http://www.ucfdtn.com/). The sixth and seventh paragraphs are the relevant ones. > [@Kelly Edmison](#): > > Three of theses cities, South Fulton; Kenton and Union City allow their departments to respond outside the city limits by way of a Subscription Service which charges a $75 yearly fee to receive fire protection. After they respond to a “members” fire, the member is billed $500 for the response. > > Why the $75 and a charge of $500? This can be compared to any insurance. You have a premium; the $75 and then you have a deductable; the $500. The policy, of these cities is that if the fee isn’t paid, then the fire department does not respond. The only exception being; life endangerment. (A report that someone may be inside the home.) So it’s $75, _plus_ $500 per callout. True, this is another city, but the article makes it clear that the three cities mentioned all have the same scale of charges. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/358 "2010-10-11T22:52:25Z")
I’m wondering how the related case, Cranick’s son assaulting the fire chief, will play out. ---
**Author:** ![SSG\_Schwartz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SSG\_Schwartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SSG_Schwartz)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/359 "2010-10-11T23:09:59Z")
I haven’t read all the way through this thread, but this has inspired me. I am not going to pay my trash collection fee anymore. After all, the trash man collects from every house on my block anyway, so why should he refuse to collect mine, whether I have paid the fee or not. Extortionists trying to charge me for living in a sanitary home. SSG § Schwartz ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/360 "2010-10-11T23:35:03Z")
I haven’t read all the way through this thread either, I just wanted to say that I think the smurfs were really unfair to Gargamel. All he wanted was some gold, was it too much to offer him a smurf or two so he could finally see if they’d turn into gold? It wouldn’t have worked, and he’d eventually bugger off. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210.md?page=19)