# WTF? Pay Up or We Let Your House Burn Down? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 6, 2010, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210 "2010-10-06T03:08:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/401 "2010-10-13T22:13:50Z")
> [@crazyjoe](#): > > > [@CannyDan](#): > > > > Frankly I don’t recall if I read it in a link in this or the other thread, or if I made the same inference **Rick** suggests above. This being the Pit, I’m not going to be bothered to research all the links offered on all the pages of both. Either way, what is your point? > > If you notice my posts, I am mostly in agreement that it is Cranick’s fault for the whole mess. I am not trying to excuse him or say the firefighters were wrong in any way. > > However, I also beleive it’s important to be accurate in how we describe this guy. If we have uncited assertions like this one treated as fact, they just pile up and before we know it he’ll be a child molester with a criminal record who purposely burned his own house down (I see the “he purposely burned his house down” argument has already been advanced by emacknight). > > And, if we’re willing to make unproven assertions against him, then those who beleive the fire department was in the wrong can point to its supporters and say “Look at all these unproven claims trying to demonize Cranick…surely that’s only because they know they are wrong.” > > We already have a news organization that reports unsubstantiated partisan drivel as fact. You see how much respect they get around here…I’d prefer to be different. I’ve read your posts, and “mostly in agreement” does seem to be a fair characterization. And, hey, I’m with you on the whole separation of fact from unsubstantiated partisan drivel front, really I am. Fightin’ the good fight against ignorants, don’t cha know. _Boo-yah!!_ Still, it’s been shown that Cranick’s own actions resulted in his house burning down. You know, I’m not surprised-- a man that would kill his own daughter’s kitten and cover it up would certainly be capable of other horrible acts. And it seems you too heard that rumor about him molesting a little girl, huh? I wonder if it’s the same girl Glen Beck hasn’t denied murdering? I’m just sayin’…… ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/402 "2010-10-14T00:11:12Z")
> [@crazyjoe](#): > > > [@CannyDan](#): > > > > Frankly I don’t recall if I read it in a link in this or the other thread, or if I made the same inference **Rick** suggests above. This being the Pit, I’m not going to be bothered to research all the links offered on all the pages of both. Either way, what is your point? > > If you notice my posts, I am mostly in agreement that it is Cranick’s fault for the whole mess. I am not trying to excuse him or say the firefighters were wrong in any way. > > However, I also beleive it’s important to be accurate in how we describe this guy. If we have uncited assertions like this one treated as fact, they just pile up and before we know it he’ll be a child molester with a criminal record who purposely burned his own house down ( **I see the “he purposely burned his house down” argument has already been advanced by emacknight** ). > > And, if we’re willing to make unproven assertions against him, then those who beleive the fire department was in the wrong can point to its supporters and say “Look at all these unproven claims trying to demonize Cranick…surely that’s only because they know they are wrong.” > > We already have a news organization that reports unsubstantiated partisan drivel as fact. You see how much respect they get around here…I’d prefer to be different. Hey now, I wasn’t advancing a position, I was simply \*asking questions. \* I hadn’t heard that he was a child molester, but now that you mention it that makes a lot of sense. Those probably weren’t dogs trapped in the house… ---
**Author:** ![Fionn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fionn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fionn)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/403 "2010-10-14T02:17:36Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > > [@crazyjoe](#): > > > > Where did you get the info that he is still in arrears for a previous fire? > > Must have been a hell of a lot of grass, and some amazingly inattentive supervision of the garbage fire, for this to travel to the double-wide and catch it on fire in turn. An article about the fire on NPR stated that the grandson started the garbage fire and then went inside to take a shower. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/404 "2010-10-14T14:45:01Z")
> [@Fionn](#): > > > [@CannyDan](#): > > > > Must have been a hell of a lot of grass, and some amazingly inattentive supervision of the garbage fire, for this to travel to the double-wide and catch it on fire in turn. > > An article about the fire on NPR stated that the grandson started the garbage fire and then went inside to take a shower. I think that going inside and taking a shower qualifies as “amazingly inattentive supervision of the garbage fire”. 😃 So if Mr. Cranick shares the [del]stupidity prize[/del] responsibility for the loss of his house with anyone, it’s the grandson. The old apple don’t fall far from the tree and they’re both wading in the shallow end of the gene pool, to massacre some metaphors. Speaking of massacres, wasn’t there a rumor about the grandkid? You know, somebody who would attack the fire chief may be capable of anything!! 😉 Still, just sayin’… ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/405 "2010-10-14T18:35:13Z")
> [@Fionn](#): > > > [@CannyDan](#): > > > > Must have been a hell of a lot of grass, and some amazingly inattentive supervision of the garbage fire, for this to travel to the double-wide and catch it on fire in turn. > > An article about the fire on NPR stated that the grandson started the garbage fire and then went inside to take a shower. Was that this fire or the last one? This story reminds me a lot of that winter about three years ago when the price of home heating oil shot up. A lot of people weren’t able to pay their bill, and as with capitalism, that meant their oil company stopped bringing oil. At the same time natural gas and electricity prices went up, so people also stopped paying that. Without payment, the power companies stopped sending power. Eventually someone dies or gets really cold and the bleeding hearts start crying. So legislation was drafted that blocked utilities from turning off power/gas/oil during the winter months–which in Minnesota is from Sept until June. Hooray, problem solved. Well, until next year, when people realized that they could stop paying their utility bills in October, and get 6 months of free power. Note, that’s an unlimited amount of power. When spring comes and the company is allowed to shut off the power, but instead the residents will switch names on the account. Now they’ll pay for power until the following year, rinse, lather, repeat. Fuck responsibility. People need to be saved from themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/406 "2010-10-14T18:51:16Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > When spring comes and the company is allowed to shut off the power, but instead the residents will switch names on the account. Now they’ll pay for power until the following year, rinse, lather, repeat. Do you have any evidence that this actually happened? Because I can tell you that in Milwaukee, they’re not allowed to shut off electricity in the winter. But if you want to get it turned back on without paying the balance, _you have to prove that the person who owes the money doesn’t live there anymore_. I know this because in 2006, my power was shut off, because the roommate who was responsible for paying that utility skipped town, and we only discovered he hadn’t paid in months when the lights suddenly went off on a Friday night. (Funny, though–he’d kept cashing the checks my roommate and I used to pay him back for our part of the bill.) When we tried to get it turned back on, we were informed that we were in the delightful Catch-22 whereby in order to have a new account opened in my name, we had to prove that Will was gone; and in order to prove that Will was gone, he had to be there to tell them. And even our landlord wasn’t willing to vouch for his disappearance, even though we’d been the ones covering his part of the rent and they hadn’t seen him. So, we spent our last month in that apartment with no electricity. It actually wasn’t too terrible–we still had gas and hot water, so we could use the stove, take showers, etc. Lots of candlelight games of Monopoly. The only thing I really missed was the fridge. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/407 "2010-10-14T19:34:33Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > For anyone just tuning in, this has happened to Cranick before. > > This isn’t the first time he choose not to pay, nor the first time his house caught on fire due to negligence. > > He’s also not the only person to have this happen, three other houses have burned down recently. > > It’s also not the first time animals died, it happened recently when a barn burned down because that owner choose not to join the subscription. > > It’s also not the first time I’ve written this. I’m not going to bother with a cite because nobody else is since this is the Pit - but I think you’ve got it a bit wrong. My memory of the story was that Cranick’s _grandson_ had a previous fire at the grandson’s own (different) house, and the FD responded even though he hadn’t paid the subscription, and they allowed him to pay later. Then _grandpa_ Cranick had this infamous fire at _his_ house, which was started by his (probably the same?) grandson. So, two different houses and owners with neither having paid the subscription, (and possibly the same fire starter) with two different outcomes. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/408 "2010-10-14T20:07:57Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > I’m not going to bother with a cite because nobody else is since this is the Pit - but I think you’ve got it a bit wrong. > > My memory of the story was that Cranick’s _grandson_ had a previous fire at the grandson’s own (different) house, and the FD responded even though he hadn’t paid the subscription, and they allowed him to pay later. Then _grandpa_ Cranick had this infamous fire at _his_ house, which was started by his (probably the same?) grandson. > > So, two different houses and owners with neither having paid the subscription, (and possibly the same fire starter) with two different outcomes. After all this time and outrage, let’s not clog up the thread with a whole bunch of useless facts and stuff, OK? We definitely don’t want to go there. That would be just crazy! Crazy, I say! Why, if I didn’t know better, I’d think….. - psssst!\* **crazyjoe** , is that you? Oh, OK, ix-nay on the ames-nay, I get it, hee hee. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/409 "2010-10-14T20:42:51Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > > [@emacknight](#): > > > > For anyone just tuning in, this has happened to Cranick before. > > > > This isn’t the first time he choose not to pay, nor the first time his house caught on fire due to negligence. > > > > He’s also not the only person to have this happen, three other houses have burned down recently. > > > > It’s also not the first time animals died, it happened recently when a barn burned down because that owner choose not to join the subscription. > > > > It’s also not the first time I’ve written this. > > I’m not going to bother with a cite because nobody else is since this is the Pit - but I think you’ve got it a bit wrong. > > My memory of the story was that Cranick’s _grandson_ had a previous fire at the grandson’s own (different) house, and the FD responded even though he hadn’t paid the subscription, and they allowed him to pay later. Then _grandpa_ Cranick had this infamous fire at _his_ house, which was started by his (probably the same?) grandson. > > So, two different houses and owners with neither having paid the subscription, (and possibly the same fire starter) with two different outcomes. I was under the impression that Cranick’s son started the last fire, and Cranick started this one. I’m going based off what Cranick himself said, and from various articles, plus what I heard from a friend of a friend who is totally reliable about stuff like this. But hell, if it turns out his grandkid started the fire, what does that change? Should an out of control child be playing at a house without fire protection? In any other scenario that would be child endangerment. I’m happy to add that to the list of charges. BTW do you think he’s paid for this year yet? Did anyone donate money yet? ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/410 "2010-10-14T20:49:28Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > > [@emacknight](#): > > > > When spring comes and the company is allowed to shut off the power, but instead the residents will switch names on the account. Now they’ll pay for power until the following year, rinse, lather, repeat. > > Do you have any evidence that this actually happened? Because I can tell you that in Milwaukee, they’re not allowed to shut off electricity in the winter. But if you want to get it turned back on without paying the balance, _you have to prove that the person who owes the money doesn’t live there anymore_. Lots of evidence, in Minnesota. My friend owned several section 8 rental properties, and this would really fuck him up. Both because the rental unit would get turned into the neighbourhood laundromat, and because the renters would have to change the name on the lease. For those that did move in the spring (which was common), he’d have a hell of a time getting the power turned back on. I also worked with a charity involved with subsidized rental properties (sort of a cross between section 8 and homes for humanity). The guy running it ran into the same problem. He’d be working with someone on their credit and find out that everyone in their family had cycled through the process. And even that rule is on the books, it’s easy enough to shift around “who lives where.” Point of the story is that no good deed goes unpunished. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/411 "2010-10-14T21:43:15Z")
Point of the story is that Minnesota has a retarded way of dealing with the situation, I think you mean. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/412 "2010-10-14T21:52:21Z")
Point of the story was, in America it’s always all about the money. It’s a capitalists dream come true. Fire services, health care, profit over compassion for your fellow every time. Because only in America does someone lose their house over $75 unpaid, with firemen standing right there, and then blame the guy without the money to pay! Truly the Excited States of America. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/413 "2010-10-14T22:04:22Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Point of the story was, in America it’s always all about the money. > > It’s a capitalists dream come true. Fire services, health care, profit over compassion for your fellow every time. > > Because only in America does someone lose their house over $75 unpaid, with firemen standing right there, and then blame the guy without the money to pay! Truly the Excited States of America. All right, damn it, I’ve made light of some calls for “nothing but the facts”, but let’s not totally misrepresent the situation. America has a problem with profit over compassion, I agree. That’s why I’m a liberal. But the rest of your statement is simply incorrect. This wasn’t some poor “guy without the money to pay” at all. It was a guy who had money, enough money to offer “any amount” to overcome his own stupidity _after the fact_, a guy who \*\*declined to accept an optional subscription service \*\*that would have cost him a paltry twenty cents a day, and would have (arguably, we cannot know the actual outcome had the fire brigade attempted to douse the fire) _saved his house from destruction_. He deserves no pity. I reserve my pity for all the poor kittens he has killed. And of course for the poor little girls he never denied molesting. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/414 "2010-10-14T22:06:06Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Because only in America does someone lose their house over $75 unpaid, with firemen standing right there, and then blame the guy without the money to pay! Truly the Excited States of America. Are you fucking retarded, or just too lazy to read any of the information available? This is not some poor broke guy sobbing as his family burns alive because the big mean fire department wouldn’t cut him any slack because he used his last $5 to feed an orphan. Cranick \*\*\*could have \*\*\*paid. He \*\*\*chose \*\*\*not to, because he thought that he could get something for nothing. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/415 "2010-10-14T22:22:12Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > > [@elbows](#): > > > > Because only in America does someone lose their house over $75 unpaid, with firemen standing right there, and then blame the guy without the money to pay! Truly the Excited States of America. > > Are you fucking retarded, or just too lazy to read any of the information available? > > This is not some poor broke guy sobbing as his family burns alive because the big mean fire department wouldn’t cut him any slack because he used his last $5 to feed an orphan. Cranick \*\*\*could have \*\*\*paid. He \*\*\*chose \*\*\*not to, because he thought that he could get something for nothing. Bullshit. He was not getting something for nothing. They let his home burn down, how much more proof is possible. He got nothing. He fucked up, and because he did, his house burned down. Can it get any better for you guys? Oh yes, it can , his dogs and cat died. We Americans love to revel in other peoples misery. We know of course, there is no way the fire dept. could get it wrong If a covered persons house got burned, you could blame him for not living in a town with fire protection. Such accidents happen.Little messed up bookwork is all that is required. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/416 "2010-10-14T23:05:00Z")
Sorry, but only in America would you find firefighters willing to stand by and watch someone’s dwelling burn down, to make a point. A $75 point. Professional firefighters. With firefighting equipment. Standing there watching someone’s house burn down. Over $75. And I’m the retard. Got it! ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/417 "2010-10-14T23:44:00Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > And I’m the retard. Got it! Well, since you know where you stand, I guess we can close the thread. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/418 "2010-10-15T01:07:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by elbows > > Sorry, but only in America would you find firefighters willing to stand by and watch someone’s dwelling burn down, to make a point. A $75 point. > > Professional firefighters. With firefighting equipment. Standing there watching someone’s house burn down. Over $75. > > And I’m the retard. Got it! Only in America, that’s funny perhaps you should read Public Fire Safety Guidelines for Ontario Canada, notably, PFSG 04-03-12 Service Providers Impact of Policy Decisions > [@](#): > > Once response capabilities have been determined it is incumbent upon the municipality to ensure that fire department operations are conducted in accordance with the requirements of the Occupational Health and Safety Act and Ministry of Labour, Health and Safety Guidelines for the Ontario Fire Service. Policies, procedures and training should be in place to ensure that firefighters are operating safely and within their capacity at the fire scene. The level of protection services provided by the department, as deemed appropriate by Council, should be clearly defined and included in the fire department establishing and regulating by-law. So the level of fire protection services is clearly defined and has to be followed as well as the Occupational Health and Safety Act and Ministry of Labour, Health and Safety Guidelines. elbows, it seems that these American firefighters were following the same rules that exist in your government. You should also read PFSG 04-08A-03 Optimizing Rural Emergency Responce It’s really kind of a checklist for fire response in Ontario. Included in the checklist are: > [@](#): > > expected intervention time > indicate whether or not the expected intervention time is normally before, or after flashover. > while the type of personnel will be a factor in this expectation, so also will, among other factors, be assembly time, travel distance, station location(s) and > [@](#): > > expectations of assembled fire attack team > indicate whether or not it is expected that: > the fire will be contained to the room of origin, or > the fire will be contained to the floor area of origin, or > the fire will be contained to the building of origin, and/or > limited rescue capabilities may be possible, and/or > only exposure protection is possible “expected intervention time is normally before, or after flashover” You do know what that means, it means that yes they will show up, but the expectation is that in many instances it will be only after the house has already burnt down. And the last option for “expectation of the assembled fire attack team”, “only exposer protection is possible”, that means keep the fire contained to the house. So the vaunted Ontario Canada fire department, depending on the circumstances, would do the exact same thing. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/419 "2010-10-15T01:21:17Z")
> [@sitchensis](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by elbows > > > > Sorry, but only in America would you find firefighters willing to stand by and watch someone’s dwelling burn down, to make a point. A $75 point. > > > > Professional firefighters. With firefighting equipment. Standing there watching someone’s house burn down. Over $75. > > > > And I’m the retard. Got it! > > Only in America, that’s funny perhaps you should read Public Fire Safety Guidelines for Ontario Canada, notably, PFSG 04-03-12 Service Providers Impact of Policy Decisions > > So the level of fire protection services is clearly defined and has to be followed as well as the Occupational Health and Safety Act and Ministry of Labour, Health and Safety Guidelines. > > elbows, it seems that these American firefighters were following the same rules that exist in your government. > > You should also read PFSG 04-08A-03 Optimizing Rural Emergency Responce > It’s really kind of a checklist for fire response in Ontario. Included in the checklist are: > > and > > > [@](#): > > > > expectations of assembled fire attack team > > indicate whether or not it is expected that: > > the fire will be contained to the room of origin, or > > the fire will be contained to the floor area of origin, or > > the fire will be contained to the building of origin, and/or > > limited rescue capabilities may be possible, and/or > > only exposure protection is possible > > “expected intervention time is normally before, or after flashover” You do know what that means, it means that yes they will show up, but the expectation is that in many instances it will be only after the house has already burnt down. > > And the last option for “expectation of the assembled fire attack team”, “only exposer protection is possible”, that means keep the fire contained to the house. > > So the vaunted Ontario Canada fire department, depending on the circumstances, would do the exact same thing. [Lawyered!](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrZvJ488SRU) ---
**Author:** ![Fionn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fionn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fionn)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/420 "2010-10-15T02:21:04Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > But hell, if it turns out his grandkid started the fire, what does that change? Should an out of control child be playing at a house without fire protection? In any other scenario that would be child endangerment. I’m happy to add that to the list of charges. > > BTW do you think he’s paid for this year yet? Did anyone donate money yet? [This](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130435529) is the article I read. The grandson is 21 years old, so he was in no way an endangered child. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210.md?page=22)