# WTF? Pay Up or We Let Your House Burn Down? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 6, 2010, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210 "2010-10-06T03:08:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/421 "2010-10-15T02:43:38Z")
> [@Fionn](#): > > [This](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130435529) is the article I read. The grandson is 21 years old, so he was in no way an endangered child. I wonder why the 21 year old living with his grandparents didn’t offer to chip in and pay the $75. It mentions he’s now living with his mom, I wonder if she’d paid. Hey **Gonzomax** , have you sent your $75 yet? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/422 "2010-10-15T03:31:28Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > > [@Fionn](#): > > > > [This](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130435529) is the article I read. The grandson is 21 years old, so he was in no way an endangered child. > > I wonder why the 21 year old living with his grandparents didn’t offer to chip in and pay the $75. It mentions he’s now living with his mom, I wonder if she’d paid. > > Hey **Gonzomax** , have you sent your $75 yet? There were lots of people who offered. Some have empathy, an alien concept for you. But it was never about the money. Let his house burn to teach him a lesson. You harp on the 75 like it was relevant. it was nothing. The story is about allowing a mans house to burn and his animals to die to teach a lesson to everyone else. Make sure the rest pay. It is a painful and expensive lesson, but so much fun for people like you. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/423 "2010-10-15T03:38:02Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > … The story is about allowing a mans … animals to die to teach a lesson to everyone else. … Wall meet **gonzomax** , **gonzomax** meet wall. Enjoy your conversation. :rolleyes: CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/424 "2010-10-15T03:55:26Z")
> [@Fionn](#): > > [This](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130435529) is the article I read. The grandson is 21 years old, so he was in no way an endangered child. Just pointing out that you screwed up the quote and I didn’t write what your quote attributed to me… ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/425 "2010-10-15T04:00:10Z")
Yo, gonzo. Is it possible, even remotely possible, that it’s not about teaching him a lesson nor about the money? Could it be, even remotely, possible that it’s about following the laws governing the deployment and use of municipal fire department personnel and equipment? Might it be, even slightly, possible that the law prohibits endangering fire department personnel in a situation where there are no actual humans in a building? Could it be, perhaps more than zero percent, possible that the municipal fire department is prohibited from attempting to save a structure that has no humans in it after that determination has been made? ---
**Author:** ![Fionn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fionn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fionn)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/426 "2010-10-15T11:27:17Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > > [@Fionn](#): > > > > [This](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130435529) is the article I read. The grandson is 21 years old, so he was in no way an endangered child. > > Just pointing out that you screwed up the quote and I didn’t write what your quote attributed to me… I’m sorry about that. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/427 "2010-10-15T11:48:48Z")
For the people who keep saying that he did not pay, I will ask: Do they not have civil courts in Tennessee with the power to attach property and garnish wages? ---
**Author:** ![MegaBee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@MegaBee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MegaBee)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/428 "2010-10-15T12:07:50Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > For the people who keep saying that he did not pay, I will ask: Do they not have civil courts in Tennessee with the power to attach property and garnish wages? I could swear I’ve seen this addressed earlier in the thread. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/429 "2010-10-15T12:58:00Z")
> [@MegaBee](#): > > > [@jtgain](#): > > > > For the people who keep saying that he did not pay, I will ask: Do they not have civil courts in Tennessee with the power to attach property and garnish wages? > > I could swear I’ve seen this addressed earlier in the thread. Earlier? Based on what **Gonzomax** just said I thought the thread just started. It’s like groundhog day in here. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/430 "2010-10-15T13:01:24Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > > [@emacknight](#): > > > > I wonder why the 21 year old living with his grandparents didn’t offer to chip in and pay the $75. It mentions he’s now living with his mom, I wonder if she’d paid. > > > > Hey **Gonzomax** , have you sent your $75 yet? > > **There were lots of people who offered.** Some have empathy, an alien concept for you. But it was never about the money. Let his house burn to teach him a lesson. You harp on the 75 like it was relevant. it was nothing. The story is about allowing a mans house to burn and his animals to die to teach a lesson to everyone else. Make sure the rest pay. It is a painful and expensive lesson, but so much fun for people like you. {bolding mine} Tell me, did anyone offer BEFORE the fire? And you’re wrong about it being a lesson, this happens frequently enough for people to know (or should know) the fire department is not allowed to help them. The lesson has already been taughy, now it’s up to individual responsibility. Do you think he learned his lesson, and paid the $75 subscription fee yet? What about the others in his area? Why do you suppose that there are still people that haven’t paid? ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/431 "2010-10-15T13:32:13Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > For the people who keep saying that he did not pay, I will ask: Do they not have civil courts in Tennessee with the power to attach property and garnish wages? Doesn’t anybody want to actually read the thread before offering stupid comments? This wasn’t a mandatory fee, nor a tax, either of which could be subject to enforcement. It was a **voluntary subscription** , you know, like cable TV. Nobody forces you to subscribe, and no court will attach your property or garnish your wages should you decide not to avail yourself of an optional service. You no pay-ee, you no get-ee TV. Or in this case, you no pay-ee, you no get-ee fire fighting. Dumb ass Cranick knew the system. Everybody in the area knew the system. The city sends annual reminders to pay, by US Mail, and follows up with phone calls. Cranick declined to avail himself of an optional service. He knew the risk, probably better than most since he had a previous fire. He tried to game the system, offering to pay only after he had an immediate need, like trying to bind auto insurance from the scene of your accident. Maybe he should have just paid his annual subscription, you think? And saved all those bibles. Or maybe he should _ **move the fucking garbage barrels away from his tinder box piece of shit of a dwelling!!!** _ Or instruct his apparent moron of a grandchild _ **not to leave a fucking fire unsupervised when it’s surrounded by unmowed dry weeds and next to a crappy storage shed that’s probably full of old paint cans and gas containers** _ maybe, don’t you think? And no, **gonzo** it isn’t a fucking _lesson_, goddamn it, it’s a fucking _consequence_. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/432 "2010-10-15T16:28:01Z")
I know I’m way, way late to this thread, but I figured I’d just pop in and point out how happy I am with this story. No joke, I couldn’t be more delighted. It’s like every Aesop’s fable rolled into a single ball of karmic wonderfulness. ::sighs happily:: ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/433 "2010-10-15T16:40:12Z")
> [@sitchensis](#): > > “expected intervention time is normally before, or after flashover” You do know what that means, it means that yes they will show up, but the expectation is that in many instances it will be only after the house has already burnt down. > > And the last option for “expectation of the assembled fire attack team”, “only exposer protection is possible”, that means keep the fire contained to the house. > > So the vaunted Ontario Canada fire department, depending on the circumstances, would do the exact same thing. I disagree that fire departments in Canada would stand by and watch a home burn based entirely on the fact that the homeowner had failed to pay a voluntary subscription fee. Your quotes refer to safety regulations for the firefighters, and expectations of service in remote areas. It is a fact that the firefighters in Ontario will treat all homes equally, even if a homeowner is in arrears in taxes, or otherwise has not contributed to the fire department. They would not do the exact same thing. They would not show up at a fire to protect the house that has paid a fee, while watching a non-fee payers house burn. You are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/434 "2010-10-15T16:41:36Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > I know I’m way, way late to this thread, but I figured I’d just pop in and point out how happy I am with this story. No joke, I couldn’t be more delighted. It’s like every Aesop’s fable rolled into a single ball of karmic wonderfulness. > > ::sighs happily:: You heartless bastard! This story still doesn’t make sense. The grandson is burning trash in the backyard, then goes inside to “take a shower.” So he has plenty of time to rub one out, get dressed, presumably smoke or drink something, before he hears the “popping sounds.” So the fire spreads to a shack/shed, then across some grass, then to the house. The grandson claims he tries to do something about the fire, also calls 911. But then, doesn’t bother to let the animals out of the house? He was inside the house when he realized the fire had spread, and had time to go outside to play with it, and had time to go back inside to call 911. But didn’t have time to grab the bibles or animals on his way back outside? Where he then stood with his dick in his hand and let the house burn to the ground. Another observation: the neighbour had a subscription, and received a service call. Do you think they had to pay the $500 fee that goes with that? Do you think either of the Cranicks are going to chip in to cover that guy’s bill? Not only did they put his house at risk, they also cost him $500. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/435 "2010-10-15T16:43:10Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > > [@sitchensis](#): > > > > “expected intervention time is normally before, or after flashover” You do know what that means, it means that yes they will show up, but the expectation is that in many instances it will be only after the house has already burnt down. > > > > And the last option for “expectation of the assembled fire attack team”, “only exposer protection is possible”, that means keep the fire contained to the house. > > > > So the vaunted Ontario Canada fire department, depending on the circumstances, would do the exact same thing. > > I disagree that fire departments in Canada would stand by and watch a home burn based entirely on the fact that the homeowner had failed to pay a voluntary subscription fee. > > Your quotes refer to safety regulations for the firefighters, and expectations of service in remote areas. It is a fact that the firefighters in Ontario will treat all homes equally, even if a homeowner is in arrears in taxes, or otherwise has not contributed to the fire department. They would not do the exact same thing. They would not show up at a fire to protect the house that has paid a fee, while watching a non-fee payers house burn. > > You are wrong. Well, it is a socialist country, so I assume the fire department also has death panels. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/436 "2010-10-15T16:56:55Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > Well, it is a socialist country, so I assume the fire department also has death panels. Yes, paid for by a special tax on the bourgeoisie, in order that we may redistribute funds to the proletariat. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/437 "2010-10-15T16:56:56Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > Well, it is a socialist country, so I assume the fire department also has death panels. Better than here, where PG&E comes and burns down your house if you don’t pay your bill. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/438 "2010-10-15T17:09:27Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > > [@emacknight](#): > > > > Well, it is a socialist country, so I assume the fire department also has death panels. > > Better than here, where PG&E comes and burns down your house if you don’t pay your bill. Be fair, now! PG&E will burn down your house regardless of whether you pay your bill. The PUC doesn’t allow PG&E to discriminate. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/439 "2010-10-15T17:35:13Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > > [@jtgain](#): > > > > For the people who keep saying that he did not pay, I will ask: Do they not have civil courts in Tennessee with the power to attach property and garnish wages? > > Doesn’t anybody want to actually read the thread before offering stupid comments? > > This wasn’t a mandatory fee, nor a tax, either of which could be subject to enforcement. It was a **voluntary subscription** , you know, like cable TV. Nobody forces you to subscribe, and no court will attach your property or garnish your wages should you decide not to avail yourself of an optional service. You no pay-ee, you no get-ee TV. Or in this case, you no pay-ee, you no get-ee fire fighting. > > Dumb ass Cranick knew the system. Everybody in the area knew the system. The city sends annual reminders to pay, by US Mail, and follows up with phone calls. Cranick declined to avail himself of an optional service. He knew the risk, probably better than most since he had a previous fire. He tried to game the system, offering to pay only after he had an immediate need, like trying to bind auto insurance from the scene of your accident. > > Maybe he should have just paid his annual subscription, you think? And saved all those bibles. > > Or maybe he should _ **move the fucking garbage barrels away from his tinder box piece of shit of a dwelling!!!** _ > > Or instruct his apparent moron of a grandchild _ **not to leave a fucking fire unsupervised when it’s surrounded by unmowed dry weeds and next to a crappy storage shed that’s probably full of old paint cans and gas containers** _ maybe, don’t you think? > > And no, **gonzo** it isn’t a fucking _lesson_, goddamn it, it’s a fucking _consequence_. A consequence of the bosses stopping the firemen from putting the fire out.Oddly, if they put the fire out and then tried to get the 75 bucks or more from him. I would be on their side. If they charged him a lot more , I would have no problem with that. However allowing his home to burn down when they were there and could have stopped it is wrong. I guess allowing pets to die does not bother you guys. I suppose the fact the firemen who are usually pretty civic minded guys who feel a calling to help were forced to watch a home burn and dogs and cat die, is no big deal. I hope they don’t feel too much guilt. They may. But cold hearted pricks like you guys who can enjoy a man being taught a lesson with terrible results is sad. I expect law suits. The SPCA is talking about cruelty charges. The firemen watching a home burn may get sued . ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2010, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/440 "2010-10-15T17:49:56Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > But cold hearted pricks like you guys who can enjoy a man being taught a lesson with terrible results is sad. [It’s not a new lesson.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ant_and_the_Grasshopper) And it’s a lesson for everyone, not just the tard whose house burned down. Particularly the Tea Party children who cry about taxation being theft while blaming the government for not doing more to prevent tainted food and airline safety and oil spills and terrorist attacks and gas line explosions and insurance companies screwing you. Grownups pay for what they want. They also prepare ahead of time for bad stuff, rather than expecting everyone else to take care of it for them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210.md?page=23)