# WTF? Pay Up or We Let Your House Burn Down? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 6, 2010, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210 "2010-10-06T03:08:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/541 "2010-10-20T02:39:54Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > **drachillix** : **emacknight** was “channelling” (pretending to be) **gonzomax** there. sorry my snarkometer is off tonight ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/542 "2010-10-20T02:43:59Z")
> [@SoulFrost](#): > > Who’ll fund it? I reckon it’d be the same sort of people who fund fire protection programs all across America without any of this sort of just-let-it-burn dumbassery. Ah, you mean the ones who pay for fire coverage, via property taxes or subscription. You also should realize, something firefighters ARE taught. “Sometimes letting it burn IS the best option” ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/543 "2010-10-20T02:49:24Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > You do realize in most areas, the cities do charge each other for this assistance. In addition, when you are talking rural areas, the next engine may be 20-30 miles away. If they are lucky, they will arrive just in time to rinse the ashes off the foundation. Yeah, but the scenario described was one of multiple fires spread out over a fairly large area. One small fire company couldn’t be expected to be able to handle it on their own. What else could they do but call out as many fire companies as they can and try to save as much as possible? ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/544 "2010-10-20T02:53:00Z")
> [@SoulFrost](#): > > I feel that any fire in your area _is_ your fire simply because the fire could just as easily spread to “your place” as to any other. Fire is, by nature, unpredictable and unruly. One good gust of wind is all it takes to turn a controlled fire into a wildfire. So no, no nearby structures are “safe”. Priority upon arrival at a fire scene RECEO Rescue: make sure people are out Exposures: make sure no other structures are threatened Contain: move in Extinguish: kill it Overhaul: address any smoldering debris etc. Lacking sufficent backup to address multiple tasks, you don’t skip steps. Rescue: Cranick and family were out Exposures: Neighbor property is threatened, deal with this first Contain: all resources are on exposures, maintain exposure protection . Extinguish: all resources are on exposures, maintain exposure protection . Overhaul: all resources are on exposures, maintain exposure protection . Actually putting out his house is #4 on the list. ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/545 "2010-10-20T02:54:09Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > Ah, you mean the ones who pay for fire coverage, via property taxes or subscription. > > You also should realize, something firefighters ARE taught. > > “Sometimes letting it burn IS the best option” I mean any of the methods that communities all across the nation use to protect themselves–VFDs, private companies, government-sponsored fire departments, whatever. Yes, sometimes burning is the best of many bad options. This wasn’t one of those times. ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/546 "2010-10-20T02:57:13Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > Priority upon arrival at a fire scene RECEO > > Rescue: make sure people are out > Exposures: make sure no other structures are threatened > Contain: move in > Extinguish: kill it > Overhaul: address any smoldering debris etc. > > Lacking sufficent backup to address multiple tasks, you don’t skip steps. > > Rescue: Cranick and family were out > Exposures: Neighbor property is threatened, deal with this first > Contain: all resources are on exposures, maintain exposure protection . > Extinguish: all resources are on exposures, maintain exposure protection . > Overhaul: all resources are on exposures, maintain exposure protection . > > Actually putting out his house is #4 on the list. How certain are you that all resources were on exposures, because I rather doubt that. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/547 "2010-10-20T02:57:51Z")
> [@SoulFrost](#): > > What else could they do but call out as many fire companies as they can and try to save as much as possible? What other fire companies? The diminishing returns curve tops out in about 15-20 minutes for a single family dwelling, if it takes more than 15 minutes, additional equipment will be effectively worthless for saving anything. Thus, why bother rolling equipment that will not arrive in time to save anything. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/548 "2010-10-20T03:03:22Z")
> [@SoulFrost](#): > > I mean any of the methods that communities all across the nation use to protect themselves–VFDs, private companies, government-sponsored fire departments, whatever. VFD’s are still not free nor private companies, who would have no obligation to act if Cranick was not a subscriber government sponsored was not implemented in this area yet probably because the tax base for that area would not cover the cost of one. > [@](#): > > Yes, sometimes burning is the best of many bad options. This wasn’t one of those times. Thats a call for the senior firefighters on the scene, if there are higher priorities in the situation like exposures, you deal with them first. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/549 "2010-10-20T03:05:13Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > What other fire companies? > > The diminishing returns curve tops out in about 15-20 minutes for a single family dwelling, if it takes more than 15 minutes, additional equipment will be effectively worthless for saving anything. Thus, why bother rolling equipment that will not arrive in time to save anything. Even the bibles? Surely they’re worth saving. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/550 "2010-10-20T03:12:52Z")
> [@SoulFrost](#): > > How certain are you that all resources were on exposures, because I rather doubt that. Small municipality volunteer departments rarely have more than a handful of fire engines. Granted some can be frighteningly well equipped. South Fulton has 5 pieces of apparatus and one station. Engine 2151, 1000 gpm pump, 750 gallons onboard water supply. Engine 2152, 1000 gpm pump, 500 gallons onboard water supply. Tanker 2171, 500 gpm, 1800 gallons of water and porto tank. Brush Unit 2181, 25 gpm, 150 gallons of water. Command Unit 2196, cascade system (thats for recharging air tanks). Your big limitation is water. If you do not have enough to address the structure, maintain exposures and containment, it will burn itself out. When a metro fire department is going full bore at a structure they are often throwing 20,000 to 30,000 gallons of water at it. At best SF could deliver a tenth of that. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/551 "2010-10-20T03:14:21Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > Even the bibles? Surely they’re worth saving. Maybe they can be useful for beating out spot fires. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/552 "2010-10-20T16:44:55Z")
> [@George\_Kaplin](#): > > Yes, how _dare_ you disagree with me 🙂 I guess we’ll have to agree to differ on this one. As the saying goes, “You’re entitled to your own opinions; you are not entitled to your own facts.” Fact: Cranick \*first \*said that he thought they would put the fire out if you didn’t pay. Fact: Cranick only said he “forgot” when he’d had time to think about how bad he looked. Fact: Cranick had had a fire before while not covered, but the FD put it out anyway and told him to start paying. Fact: You are contacted multiple times, via multiple channels, if you decline to pay the optional fee. I’m thinking a site dedicated to fighting ignorance is a bad place for you, neighbor. > [@](#): > > They’re certainly getting an awful lot of bad PR for letting Cranick’s house burn down. Only among morons. > [@](#): > > I can’t see any cites in this thread which give a clear answer to this question. Yes, \*if only \*people had given repeated information about how fucking impossible it is to collect on a debt like this, or how this guy had previously welched on what he owed… > [@](#): > > Aw, why can’t you be nice 🙂 Because you’re acting like a fucking retard without the apparent excuse of actually having sub-normal reasoning abilities. > [@](#): > > I present to you my balls. Feel free to draw upon them succulently at your leisure. Telling people to suck your anything genitalish is against the ridiculous rules of this board, FYI. So I’m going to assume that by “draw upon” you mean “tear off,” which I’d be happy to take you up on. > [@SoulFrost](#): > > You don’t fuck with fire. Thank god you’re here, random internet stranger, to tell trained firefighters how they should safelyand best fight fires! Especially since their method so clearly resulted in massive damage to the properties of those entitled to their services after having subscribed to them. Another question: How close was the neighbor’s property to Cranick’s house? How close were any structures, house or otherwise, on the neighbor’s property to that abutting edge? People are talking like these are row houses in a crowded urban area, which clearly they’re not. > [@emacknight](#): > > Good point. So why did Cranick [a] refuse to pay his subscription fee, and \*\* let his grand_child_ fuck with fire? You seem to be under the impression that this was a minor. AFAIK, the “grandchild” was over the age of 20. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/553 "2010-10-20T18:23:59Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > \ You seem to be under the impression that this was a minor. AFAIK, the “grandchild” was over the age of 20. Agree with you totally, up to this point. But in fairness, I thought \*\*emack \*\*was simply riffing off of my own post, which pointed out that the younger Cranick was of adult years but not of adult judgement. Don’t mean to speak for you, **emack** , so if I’m wrong you have my apology in advance. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/554 "2010-10-20T18:35:22Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > Agree with you totally, up to this point. But in fairness, I thought \*\*emack \*\*was simply riffing off of my own post, which pointed out that the younger Cranick was of adult years but not of adult judgement. > > Don’t mean to speak for you, **emack** , so if I’m wrong you have my apology in advance. 😉 If you look closely, you’ll see my use of _ironics_ when writing grand -\>_child_\<- I kind of thought we were all doing it. Still makes me wonder why the 21 year old resident didn’t offer to put some of the money he makes on his paper route towards the $75 subscription fee. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/555 "2010-10-20T18:37:40Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > \Still makes me wonder why the 21 year old resident didn’t offer to put some of the money he makes on his paper route towards the $75 subscription fee. He spent it all on kitten food? 😃 Or maybe airplane glue. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/556 "2010-10-20T19:29:16Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > If you look closely, you’ll see my use of _ironics_ when writing grand -\>_child_\<- I kind of thought we were all doing it. I don’t _know_, were _we_? My own fault for losing track of the _conversation_. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/557 "2010-10-20T19:55:27Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > I don’t _know_, were _we_? My own fault for losing track of the _conversation_. Is it too much to ask that you \*read \*the fucking thread?! It’s only 12 pages long. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/558 "2010-10-20T20:03:42Z")
That’s the problem. I’ve read the whole thing, and my brain just can’t hold on to all 557 posts. ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/559 "2010-10-20T21:34:24Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > [Quote=Soulfrost] > > Don’t fuck with fire. Thank god you’re here, random internet stranger, to tell trained firefighters how they should safelyand best fight fires! Especially since their method so clearly resulted in massive damage to the properties of those entitled to their services after having subscribed to them. [/QUOTE] 'Cept they were categorically _not_ fighting a fire. Do you really need cites for smaller fires turning into much bigger ones? Thank God you’re here, random person with a keyboard, to bring one small light to this darkling sea of ignorance! ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2010, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/560 "2010-10-20T21:51:21Z")
> [@SoulFrost](#): > > 'Cept they were categorically _not_ fighting a fire. Yes they were, idiot–they were there to protect the house of Cranick’s neighbor. Otherwise, they wouldn’t have shown up at all. Care to take another swing, or will you retire to the locker room in shame? I hear they have these awesome little hot tub things. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210.md?page=29)