# WTF? Pay Up or We Let Your House Burn Down? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 6, 2010, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210 "2010-10-06T03:08:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/581 "2010-10-21T21:45:41Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > Yes, and firefighters have a nasty habit of knowing more than you, when it comes to controlling fires. Controlled burns are not that uncommon. By the time they got there, the house was engulfed. Spraying water on it would have done nothing. > > With that said, there was plenty Cranick and his grandkid could have done, like let the animals out, or paid for garbage removal, or paid attention to a fire that did get out of control. > > Sounds like Cranick and his neighbours need to get their shit together before the next time. > > And you’re right, the fire department would not have rolled out, because they are not responsible for that area. They are not responsible for the area because the community doesn’t want them. I don’t think you quite understand the situation. There was no “best thing to do is let it burn” or “let’s make this a controlled burn” decision made by fire fighters at the scene. The decision made was “we won’t even go and check what the conditions are like” (until a subscribed neighbor called.) ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/582 "2010-10-21T21:59:14Z")
> [@SoulFrost](#): > > I don’t think you quite understand the situation. There was no “best thing to do is let it burn” or “let’s make this a controlled burn” decision made by fire fighters at the scene. The decision made was “we won’t even go and check what the conditions are like” (until a subscribed neighbor called.) Right, because the house in question was outside of their service area. You do realize that part of the situation right? There is no fire department serving Cranick’s neighbourhood. There is no one to call. His neighbourhood didn’t want one. Those that did want fire protection paid out of pocket for the subscription. And those that paid received what the paid for. ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/583 "2010-10-21T22:03:17Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > Right, because the house in question was outside of their service area. You do realize that part of the situation right? There is no fire department serving Cranick’s neighbourhood. There is no one to call. His neighbourhood didn’t want one. > > Those that did want fire protection paid out of pocket for the subscription. And those that paid received what the paid for. They paid for fire protection. Allowing a fire to burn out of sight and out of mind is not fire protection. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/584 "2010-10-21T22:15:23Z")
> [@SoulFrost](#): > > They paid for fire protection. Allowing a fire to burn out of sight and out of mind is not fire protection. It is if it doesn’t threaten your house. ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/585 "2010-10-21T22:19:42Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > It is if it doesn’t threaten your house. Every fire in your area threatens your house, moreso if nobody who’s trained to deal with it actually comes out to at least check on it. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/586 "2010-10-21T22:30:51Z")
> [@SoulFrost](#): > > Every fire in your area threatens your house, moreso if nobody who’s trained to deal with it actually comes out to at least check on it. So if they paid for a subscription, the fire department should come rushing out to check on all fires, including campfires! ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/587 "2010-10-21T22:31:20Z")
> [@SoulFrost](#): > > Every fire in your area threatens your house, moreso if nobody who’s trained to deal with it actually comes out to at least check on it. I agree, which is why paying to have trained people available is a good idea. Trained people cost money. Moreso, sending trained people out to an area they are not responsible for diminishes their capacity to serve the people that actual pay them. If Cranick and his neighbours wanted a trained individual to provide that sort of service, they need to pay. It just so happens that a trained individual offered that service for $75. Cranick refused. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4bbf92/32.png) [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Hamsandwich)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/588 "2010-10-21T22:31:58Z")
I think **Soulfrost** touched upon an interesting point, even if he didn’t realize it. IF Cranick had been the _only_ call to put out his fire, and no one else did would the FD sit back without some sort of pow-wow about how the fire could possibly spread to the subscribing neighbors? Or would they just have assessed that the Cranicks were out of danger and stay put? ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/589 "2010-10-21T22:33:36Z")
> [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](#): > > I think **Soulfrost** touched upon an interesting point, even if he didn’t realize it. IF Cranick had been the _only_ call to put out his fire, and no one else did would the FD sit back without some sort of pow-wow about how the fire could possibly spread to the subscribing neighbors? Or would they just have assessed that the Cranicks were out of danger and stay put? That’s actually my main point. My understanding is that the fire department would not have responded at all, once they determined that the structure was unoccupied, until a subscriber called in. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/590 "2010-10-21T22:50:02Z")
> [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](#): > > I think **Soulfrost** touched upon an interesting point, even if he didn’t realize it. IF Cranick had been the _only_ call to put out his fire, and no one else did would the FD sit back without some sort of pow-wow about how the fire could possibly spread to the subscribing neighbors? Or would they just have assessed that the Cranicks were out of danger and stay put? > [@SoulFrost](#): > > That’s actually my main point. My understanding is that the fire department would not have responded at all, once they determined that the structure was unoccupied, until a subscriber called in. Right, which is the result of people living in an area without a dedicated fire department. If a tree burns in a forest, and no one sees it… If you keep going further from a municipal area, into less populated regions, the risk goes up that a house will burn to the ground without anyone responding to it. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/591 "2010-10-21T23:19:38Z")
> [@SoulFrost](#): > > Every fire in your area threatens your house, moreso if nobody who’s trained to deal with it actually comes out to at least check on it. Problem is, who comes? Cranick does not live within the jurisdiction/response area of the fire department in question. San Francisco decided to up and close their fire department is Oakland now required to do it? Says who? Who is paying for this? Generally cities which lack such resources fall back on county, state, or federal level resources. In My area for example, if the city of Sanger, CA disbanded its fire department, Fresno County fire will roll on fires in Sanger. If FCF is unable to roll, California Department of Forestry or US Forest Service Apparatus could roll. Problem is CDF and USFS stations are spread very thin. Making them nowhere near as ineffective as a local metro FD. I do not know if TN has state or federal level fire resources within any kind of useful response time but his home is probably technicially in a state or federal responsibility area. If there is a USFS station 3 towns over, I’m sure they would have been obligated to go look if someone called them. End result would still be Cranicks house toast. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/592 "2010-10-21T23:26:45Z")
> [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](#): > > I think **Soulfrost** touched upon an interesting point, even if he didn’t realize it. IF Cranick had been the _only_ call to put out his fire, and no one else did would the FD sit back without some sort of pow-wow about how the fire could possibly spread to the subscribing neighbors? Or would they just have assessed that the Cranicks were out of danger and stay put? I typed Gene Cranick, South Fulton, TN into Dogpile’s White Pages directory and got “5187 Buddy Jones Rd South Fulton, TN 38257”. Typing that into Google Earth gives an image of the apparent “neighborhood”. Using GE’s measuring tool, it appears that Cranick’s nearest neighbor’s house (not necessarily the neighbor with a fire subscription, just the apparent nearest) is approximately 900 feet away. That’s (um, carry the one, ah, ehm….) _ **three football fields away** _. Yes, a burning ember might drift that far, but it isn’t bloody likely. I never thought that eminent danger to the neighbors was much of an issue here. Now I’m convinced that it is not. In an abundance of caution, the fire brigade was right to stand by their subscriber, just to be certain. Nor did I think that there was much if any chance of saving Cranick’s house, even if the fire brigade had in fact responded to his call. Apparently at least a corner of the building was ablaze when idiot grandson first noticed it. The town of South Fulton measures to be about 2 1/2 road miles away, giving time for a flimsy shell like a double wide to become rather fully involved. And the fire engines available would exhaust their water supply in less than a minute at full discharge rate, one of them in only half a minute. Does anyone contend that a burning building the size of a double wide could be extinguished in less than a minute? The nearest additional water supply is a lake about 1,300 feet away. The tanker could shuttle back and forth, refilling the engine, but with some delay. I’m not seeing “extinguishing the blaze” as a workable option, even if the fire department had the authority to make the attempt. It seems quite likely that Cranick’s house was (as my fire fighter friend characterized such) “fully involved and in burn-down” with the ultimate result being inevitable. I blame Cranick. And his moronic spawn. ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/593 "2010-10-21T23:31:23Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > Problem is, who comes? Cranick does not live within the jurisdiction/response area of the fire department in question. > > San Francisco decided to up and close their fire department is Oakland now required to do it? Says who? Who is paying for this? > > Generally cities which lack such resources fall back on county, state, or federal level resources. > > In My area for example, if the city of Sanger, CA disbanded its fire department, Fresno County fire will roll on fires in Sanger. If FCF is unable to roll, California Department of Forestry or US Forest Service Apparatus could roll. > > Problem is CDF and USFS stations are spread very thin. Making them nowhere near as ineffective as a local metro FD. > > I do not know if TN has state or federal level fire resources within any kind of useful response time but his home is probably technicially in a state or federal responsibility area. > > If there is a USFS station 3 towns over, I’m sure they would have been obligated to go look if someone called them. End result would still be Cranicks house toast. Do you actually read my posts before replying? ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2010, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/594 "2010-10-21T23:40:52Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > I typed Gene Cranick, South Fulton, TN into Dogpile’s White Pages directory and got “5187 Buddy Jones Rd South Fulton, TN 38257”. Typing that into Google Earth gives an image of the apparent “neighborhood”. Using GE’s measuring tool, it appears that Cranick’s nearest neighbor’s house (not necessarily the neighbor with a fire subscription, just the apparent nearest) is approximately 900 feet away. That’s (um, carry the one, ah, ehm….) _ **three football fields away** _. Yes, a burning ember might drift that far, but it isn’t bloody likely. But Lordy–did you see all the underbrush around his place? ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/595 "2010-10-22T00:08:09Z")
> [@SoulFrost](#): > > Do you actually read my posts before replying? Yes ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/596 "2010-10-22T00:11:28Z")
> [@SoulFrost](#): > > But Lordy–did you see all the underbrush around his place? I see a forest. And I think, if I’ve got the right property, that I see a generally unkempt homestead, at least as compared to all the others nearby. Some of that may indeed be underbrush. As I recall, the idiot grandchild said the burn cans caught “the grass” on fire which communicated the fire to “a shed” apparently next to the double-wide, and that in turn ignited the domicile. There were choices made in maintaining a yard around his house that, if not fire resistant, at least wasn’t a tinderbox of dried plant material. To say nothing of being a trashy eyesore to the neighborhood. Once again, I blame Cranick. ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/597 "2010-10-22T00:21:46Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > I see a forest. And I think, if I’ve got the right property, that I see a generally unkempt homestead, at least as compared to all the others nearby. Some of that may indeed be underbrush. As I recall, the idiot grandchild said the burn cans caught “the grass” on fire which communicated the fire to “a shed” apparently next to the double-wide, and that in turn ignited the domicile. > > There were choices made in maintaining a yard around his house that, if not fire resistant, at least wasn’t a tinderbox of dried plant material. To say nothing of being a trashy eyesore to the neighborhood. Once again, I blame Cranick. Check out the video in the article linked to by the OP. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/598 "2010-10-22T00:39:06Z")
> [@SoulFrost](#): > > Check out the video in the article linked to by the OP. Yes, I remember watching that, way back two weeks ago. Maybe it’s where I got the mental picture of his place as a shithole. Not the fire damage, mind, but the general appearance of the property. And even then Cranick was demonstrably a liar. He says he paid last year, and the year before, and the year before that. But “the year before that” is when he had his previous fire, and had his first experience with not being entitled to subscription services when one does not in fact subscribe. As for the immediately preceding years, I do not believe it has been demonstrated one way or the other if he actually paid. As I recall, the previous fire too was caused by that moronic fruit of his loins. So, three years to learn the lesson about subscription services. And three years to clean up the fire trap of a property. And three years to _ **hide the goddamn matches out of reach of that fucking moron he calls grandson** _. You know, the one who sets fires and then wanders off to skullfuck a kitten or something. And then blames other people. And assaults the fire chief. That one. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/599 "2010-10-22T03:18:31Z")
> [@SoulFrost](#): > > They paid for fire protection. Allowing a fire to burn out of sight and out of mind is not fire protection. Depends on the contract, now doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/600 "2010-10-22T10:23:27Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Depends on the contract, now doesn’t it? Since they rolled once a subscriber called in, I’d say no. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210.md?page=31)