# WTF? Pay Up or We Let Your House Burn Down? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 6, 2010, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210 "2010-10-06T03:08:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/641 "2010-10-26T02:39:00Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [Change starts here · Change.org](http://animals.change.org/blog/view/tennessee_firefighters_stand_and_watch_while_animals_burn) I could bury you with cites about that fact. Try to see if you can find one from an unbiased source. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/642 "2010-10-26T03:40:34Z")
[Archive blogs](http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/01/los-angeles-firefighter-recounts-daring-dog-rescue.html) Some communities care. Helicopter too, pretty expensive. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/643 "2010-10-26T03:44:49Z")
[Examiner is back - Examiner.com](http://www.examiner.com/dogs-in-national/3-dogs-die-tennessee-house-fire-firefighters-refuse-to-help) Why are animal organizations upset? Three dogs and a cat. I bet it sounded nice as thay say and listened. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/644 "2010-10-26T03:53:33Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [StockExaminer - AI-Powered Stock Chatbot](http://www.examiner.com/dogs-in-national/3-dogs-die-tennessee-house-fire-firefighters-refuse-to-help) Why are animal organizations upset? Three dogs and a cat. I bet it sounded nice as thay say and listened. Yeah, I’m sure the “Dog News Examiner” (WTF?) is entirely unbiased. Keep on digging. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/645 "2010-10-26T04:09:00Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [Archive blogs](http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/01/los-angeles-firefighter-recounts-daring-dog-rescue.html) Some communities care. > Helicopter too, pretty expensive. “911 what is your emergency” “Help, my wife and are are trapped in a car accident” “Sorry sir, our rescue team is saving a dog right now, but we’ll get to you as soon as we can.” “What? A dog?” “Yes, and it will make for a great photo-op, we really need the publicity. Hang in there.” ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/646 "2010-10-26T04:11:44Z")
I still don’t understand what the grandson was doing all that time while the house burned. How hard is it to get the animals out? How is it that people can blame the firefighters, while that douchebag literally ran past all four animals to get himself out of the _house_. ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/647 "2010-10-26T04:45:35Z")
A couple of things have been pointed out, but in my opinion not stressed enough: 1. $75, or even $575, would not even be the small change of the cost of fighting a structure fire. The enormous cost is the reason civilized places require everyone to share that burden. What $75 represents is the amount calculated to be, when multiplied by the number of people willing to pay it, enough to justify the cost of answering a neighboring municipality’s fire calls for a year, at least when any additional fees are collected. Mr. Crannick did not forget to write a check for a service protecting his home for a year, the way someone might forget to pay an insurance premium. He chose not to contribute to a system designed to protect, broadly, a number of peoples’ homes collectively. It seems probable that he did this because he thought the likelihood of his own home burning seemed too small to him to justify the cost (what everyone can agree on is that the gentleman was no mathematician), or that the system would protect him anyway. Either way, he saw _no_ value to helping pay for protection for anyone besides himself, including his immediate neighbors. This mindset is antithetical to the notion of any kind of services in a cooperative society, from law enforcement to hospitals to paved roads, let alone something as specialized, expensive and dangerous as firefighting. Mr. Crannick’s decision not only failed to protect his own home, it impoverished the means by which everyone elses’ homes were protected as well, which is why I’m not overwhelmed by moral repugnance at the fire department’s decision not to spend limited resources preserving his property. 2. Mobile homes are extremely vulnerable to fire, are consumed rapidly, and are particularly hazardous (compared to other types of structures) when burning, and with no lives in danger, confining the department’s efforts to exposure protection is a perfectly justifiable decision that is frequently made by commanders in places which have local departments with quick response times and no cockamamie subscriber system to think about. 3. I’ll see your three dogs and a cat (positing their existence and the claimed circumstances), and raise you a platypus, a seeing-eye dolphin, and a parrot, and respectfully suggest that when you have a structure fire in which no persons’ lives are in danger, it’s reasonable not to go ahead and endanger some in an effort to rescue pets, and to think otherwise indicates that one’s moral compass has been left in the pocket of one’s other pair of pants. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/648 "2010-10-26T04:49:03Z")
> [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](#): > > and to think otherwise indicates that one’s moral compass has been left in the pocket of one’s other pair of pants. I’m steeling that! ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/649 "2010-10-26T14:04:11Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Why speculate? The guys in this thread will tell you why he did not pay and what kind of person he is. The guys house burned down demonstrating what kind of evil nasty person he is. If he were a thinking ,caring sober citizen, his home would still be standing. Cranick would have been just like you. But since he did not pay, he was an evil person who merely got what was coming to him. So far you’ve refused to answer any questions, but at least answer this one: What if a guy gets drunk and crashes his car, killing his dog in the process, would you have the same emotions? That is to say, after the accident, would you say, “He’s suffered enough, he lost his car and his dog, there is no need to hold him accountable.” ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/650 "2010-10-26T14:35:54Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Why speculate? The guys in this thread will tell you why he did not pay and what kind of person he is. The guys house burned down demonstrating what kind of evil nasty person he is. If he were a thinking ,caring sober citizen, his home would still be standing. Cranick would have been just like you. But since he did not pay, he was an evil person who merely got what was coming to him. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Save Cranick’s house, you tell everyone in the County that they do not actually have to pay the $75 fee to get fire services. People stop paying the fee The South Fulton FD becomes underfunded Maintenance suffers, training suffers, personnel are let go The people of South Fulton (who are actually paying for the FD to exist) decide that they will no longer fund a FD that spends so much of its time and (their) money fighting fires outside the town, to people who refuse to pay their way Now, nobody in that area of the County has any fire department coverage at all, and every house that catches fire is burnt to the ground, risking everyone’s lives. On the plus side, we’ve saved the pets that Cranick’s jackass grandson couldn’t bother to let out of the house. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/651 "2010-10-26T14:47:40Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > And do you still think that the fire fighters are the only ones capable of opening the door and letting the animals out? They do have all that fancy doorknob learnin’. > [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](#): > > A couple of things have been pointed out, but in my opinion not stressed enough They’ve been stressed. And repeated. Over, and over, and over. \*\*gonzo \*\*is just being a stubborn retard because he is physically incapable of admitting when he’s wrong. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/652 "2010-10-26T16:51:31Z")
You guys are so wrong . Letting a home burn down and animals die for 75 bucks is shameful. Why you cold hearted people can stubbornly stick to an untenable and morally wrong position , I can not guess. But I wish you had the ability to admit when you are wrong. That kind of thing should not be done. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/653 "2010-10-26T17:37:07Z")
Gonzomax, what do you think would happen if this fire department routinely put out fires for people who didn’t pay the fee? What do you think the results for all parties would likely be? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/654 "2010-10-26T17:48:50Z")
Everyone would sing _Kumbaya_ after every fire is successfully fought, and the money fairy would come and make sure all is taken care of. Bigger question - after 653 posts, does anyone, on either side, think the other side is going to see “reason”, or do we really just like arguing past one another so much? Are we waiting for Bugs Bunny to fool Daffy by saying _“Rabbit Season”_ to trick the other side to our point of view? ---
**Author:** ![pbbth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@pbbth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pbbth)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/655 "2010-10-26T17:51:29Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > You guys are so wrong . Letting a home burn down and animals die for 75 bucks is shameful. Why you cold hearted people can stubbornly stick to an untenable and morally wrong position , I can not guess. But I wish you had the ability to admit when you are wrong. > That kind of thing should not be done. You keep saying it is morally wrong to let his house burn. Where is your critique of Cranick’s morals? Do you also feel like it would be immoral for his insurance company to deny his claim based on the fact that he actively avoided preventative measures like paying the $75 fee for fire service? ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/656 "2010-10-26T18:01:17Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > They do have all that fancy doorknob learnin’. OK, this made me laugh out loud. (I mean, it was just a quiet chuckle, but that’s still something, right?) Also, **gonzomax** is a retard. I can only imagine life in his world: “Hey everyone, let’s all pitch in ten bucks for pizza. Unless you don’t want to pay, in which case eat up – we’re not going to let you go hungry for a mere ten bucks.” ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/657 "2010-10-26T18:19:18Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > OK, this made me laugh out loud. (I mean, it was just a quiet chuckle, but that’s still something, right?) > > Also, **gonzomax** is a retard. I can only imagine life in his world: “Hey everyone, let’s all pitch in ten bucks for pizza. Unless you don’t want to pay, in which case eat up – we’re not going to let you go hungry for a mere ten bucks.” I suppose you idiots think your concept of morality is sanctioned by your own group of unthinking, uncaring people reinforcing each others medieval morality. Post away and pat yourself on the back for being cold hearted jerks who love base morality. It is low to enjoy peoples pain , their home burning down and animals dying. I think it was wrong. But somehow idiots like you think you are speaking for a moral position. You are not. But dingbats like you are incapable of empathy. I don’t laugh at your stupidity. I weep. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/658 "2010-10-26T18:21:11Z")
Stay hippy. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/659 "2010-10-26T18:23:00Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > I suppose you idiots think your concept of morality is sanctioned by your own group of unthinking, uncaring people reinforcing each others medieval morality. Post away and pat yourself on the back for being cold hearted jerks who love base morality. It is low to enjoy peoples pain , their home burning down and animals dying. I think it was wrong. But somehow idiots like you think you are speaking for a moral position. You are not. But dingbats like you are incapable of empathy. I don’t laugh at your stupidity. I weep. Crybaby. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/660 "2010-10-26T18:23:17Z")
[Video: Firefighters let home burn to the ground because owner didn’t pay annual $75 fee – HotAir](http://hotair.com/archives/2010/10/04/video-firefighters-let-home-burn-to-the-ground-because-owner-didnt-pay-annual-75-fee/) I know what you guys would do, and be proud of it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210.md?page=34)