# WTF? Pay Up or We Let Your House Burn Down? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 6, 2010, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210 "2010-10-06T03:08:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/661 "2010-10-26T18:42:02Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Letting a home burn down and animals die for 75 bucks is shameful. I agree, 100%. Cranick should be ashamed of himself. > [@Giraffe](#): > > (I mean, it was just a quiet chuckle, but that’s still something, right?) I’ll take it. That and \*\*gonzo \*\*will get me a nice house in the country with 150 acres. > [@gonzomax](#): > > I know what you guys would do, and be proud of it. I’d bring s’more fixings and booze. But that’s because I’m a bitch. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/662 "2010-10-26T18:50:39Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > I’ll take it. That and \*\*gonzo \*\*will get me a nice house in the country with 150 acres. I hope it burns down with a bunch of kittens and maybe some orphans inside! That would be hilarious!! ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/663 "2010-10-26T19:09:38Z")
If I bring a water pistol to the fire, can I share the s’mores and the booze? Especially the booze. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/664 "2010-10-26T19:12:26Z")
Better yet: _orphaned kittens_. And keep your damned mitts off my booze. Unless your water pistol also has booze in it. Which you will shoot into my mouth. Oh yes, you will. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/665 "2010-10-26T19:28:06Z")
[Fire Fighting in Obion County, Unethical Community of the Year | Ethics Alarms](http://ethicsalarms.com/2010/10/05/fire-fighting-in-obion-county-unethical-community-of-the-year/) Outside of the snake pit here, there are thoughtful people who reacted like you conservatives, but then thought better of it. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/666 "2010-10-26T19:30:41Z")
Don’t you \*dare \*drag my political stance through the mud by pretending that your position is based in being a liberal, instead of being a fucking retard. You’re making the rest of us look bad. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/667 "2010-10-26T19:35:02Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > “Hey everyone, let’s all pitch in ten bucks for pizza. Unless you don’t want to pay, in which case eat up – we’re not going to let you go hungry for a mere ten bucks.” Everyone is chipping in $10 toward a pizza? What kinda expensive pizza are you ordering? Or is the delivery babe topless? ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/668 "2010-10-26T19:37:01Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [http://hotair.com/archives/2010/10/04/video-firefighters-let-home-burn-to-the-ground-because-owner-didnt-pay-annual-75-fee/](http://hotair.com/archives/2010/10/04/video-firefighters-let-home-burn-to-the-ground-because-owner-didnt-pay-annual-75-fee/) I know what you guys would do, and be proud of it. That was enlightening. According to the Cranicks, the fire took two hours to spread to the house from the barrels while they called 911 trying to get a response. Two hours and they didn’t bother to save their pets or their bibles. They had _hours_ to save their pets and just let them die. Disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/669 "2010-10-26T19:40:10Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [Fire Fighting in Obion County, Unethical Community of the Year | Ethics Alarms](http://ethicsalarms.com/2010/10/05/fire-fighting-in-obion-county-unethical-community-of-the-year/) Outside of the snake pit here, there are thoughtful people who reacted like you conservatives, but then thought better of it. You do liberalism a disservice by casting the need for everyone to pony up in advance for collective safety (instead of expecting the unlucky few to pay for said services on demand) as a conservative viewpoint. On the contrary, non-stupid liberals understand that social safety nets like fire fighting, police and (IMO) universal health care are good for society, but also understand that the system only works if you actually pay for them. Taxes seem like the fairest way to go to me, but I don’t have jurisdiction over places like Cranick’s county which voted down the tax needed to pay for fire services. They set up an opt-in system instead, which was their call, but of course allows for greater unfairness (i.e. either someone’s house burns down or they put out a non-covered house fire at which point no one else pays). Don’t hide behind your political alignment as an excuse for being stupid and not knowing how money works. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/670 "2010-10-26T19:43:01Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > You do liberalism a disservice by [blah blah blah lots of big words] I like my version better, because I called him a fucking retard. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/671 "2010-10-26T19:51:39Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Everyone is chipping in $10 toward a pizza? What kinda expensive pizza are you ordering? When only two people elect to pay, you have to charge more. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/672 "2010-10-26T19:59:02Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Better yet: _orphaned kittens_. > > And keep your damned mitts off my booze. Unless your water pistol also has booze in it. Which you will shoot into my mouth. Oh yes, you will. \*::YES:: ::I:: ::WILL::\* What else are water pistols for, anyway? _(And why did they get that strange name?)_ **Giraffe** , some of us have offered the hippy socialist answer before, repeatedly, like everything else in this thread. Buddy \*\*gonzo \*\*just keeps sticking his fingers in his ears and doing “liberalism a disservice”. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/673 "2010-10-26T20:00:10Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > I like my version better, because I called him a fucking retard. Yes, but my way will make him feel bad because he’ll only understand half of it. The insecurity will eat at him and later cause erectile dysfunction. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/674 "2010-10-26T20:02:21Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > Yes, but my way will make him feel bad because he’ll only understand half of it. The insecurity will eat at him and later cause erectile dysfunction. The frogurt is also cursed? ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/675 "2010-10-26T20:13:07Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > The frogurt is also cursed? And partially melted. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/676 "2010-10-26T20:17:40Z")
I approve. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/677 "2010-10-26T20:22:40Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > That was enlightening. According to the Cranicks, the fire took two hours to spread to the house from the barrels while they called 911 trying to get a response. > > Two hours and they didn’t bother to save their pets or their bibles. They had _hours_ to save their pets and just let them die. Disgusting. Enlightening indeed. I hadn’t seen this report before. Makes Cranick the Craven look even worse to me. Two hours for the fire to get from \*here \*to _there_. TWO \*\*FUCKNG \*\*_ **HOURS!!!** _ And nobody could spray it with the garden hose, or beat it with shovels, or anything else to deter it from crossing the grassy expanse between barrels and shed? Horseshit. Also, note the distinct lack of mention of any pets. Mrs. Craven pines for her bibles, but nobody on camera even mentions animals. Somehow they magically appeared later. Almost as if they had never been there at all until sympathy was needed. Amazing how that happens. Same for the claim that payment was “forgotten”. Craven Senior admits on camera his belief that the fire department would serve him despite his non-payment. Recognizing that this would place blame fully upon his shoulders, he later changed the story to one of forgetfulness. Poor, pitiful people. Made a huge mistake in judgement. Then tried to pull a fast one to excuse their loss and even perhaps make a profit from it. I wonder how many sympathy donations are actually pouring in? Sorry, **gonzo** , even my heightened hippy sensitivities to the unfortunate plight of mankind cannot be stirred for this bunch of jerks. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/678 "2010-10-26T20:31:47Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > [Fire Fighting in Obion County, Unethical Community of the Year | Ethics Alarms](http://ethicsalarms.com/2010/10/05/fire-fighting-in-obion-county-unethical-community-of-the-year/) Outside of the snake pit here, there are thoughtful people who reacted like you conservatives, but then thought better of it. Here’s the key point from another stupid link that **gonzomax** hasn’t read: > [@](#): > > The fire department was equally wrong, and maybe more so. A community’s citizens would join together and voluntarily help a neighbor save a neighbor’s home, but these trained, professional firefighters wouldn’t because of a lousy $75 bucks? Where the fuck was the community? Oh that’s right, they VOTED to have it this way. They have happily enjoyed watching houses burn down for 20 years, including a barn that may have had horses. The fire department is the smallest player in this shit storm of an opera. And **gonzomax** , now that we’re on page 14 and all you’ve done is repeat the same tired bullshit accusations, I’m just going to come out and say it, you’re a troll. Go to Vegas and spend the day with **Morella**. If you can’t see that what you’re going is unethical behavior, you have no business here telling trained fire fighters what their obligations are. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/679 "2010-10-26T20:47:39Z")
For those new to the discussion, on the surface it would seem logical to blame the fire department. It would seem unethical for them to let the house burn. If you just joined in, it might seem like a bunch of heartless bastards and laughing at an old man’s misfortune. But that entire line of reasoning is a giant red hearing, meant to lead you away from what’s going on. It’s a very superficial way of looking at the situation. If you step back, even just one layer, you’ll realize that the fire department should never have been placed in that position. They were left with an impossible choice: it is not moral to save the house because that comes at a cost to the municipality that funds them. Nor is it moral to ignore a call for help because of $75. When you consider those two opposing forces, you’ll realize that the truly immoral action was putting the fire department in that position. They should never have been forced to choose. Realizing this, it becomes painfully obvious that the community failed here. They didn’t want to force residents to pay, and they didn’t want to properly fund a fire department. The community as a whole decided to game the system, and expect the fire department to help out when called. The community was banking on the attitude that **gonzomax** is pushing. That when faced with a moral dilemma the community could count on the fire department to do what’s right–which would have been to provide a free service, billed to the municipality. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/680 "2010-10-26T21:23:32Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > . . .But that entire line of reasoning is a giant red hearing. . . A red hearing? Isn’t that what Joe McCarthy had? Seriously, it makes me tired and sad that so many people want to argue about whether the fire department did the right thing, and so few people even consider whether the opt-in system of fire protection is a good idea. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210.md?page=33) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210.md?page=35)