# WTF? Pay Up or We Let Your House Burn Down? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 6, 2010, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210 "2010-10-06T03:08:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/121 "2010-10-07T09:37:22Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > > [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > > > **His** government does not offer fire-protection services. Some town down the highway does. In the same way, the city police is not obligated to come and investigate a crime at his place. > > Your analogy fails because while cops in the next town over wouldn’t investigate a crime at his place, presumably there is some sort of police that do so he would call them instead. I have not make any analogy at all. **His** government does not offer fire-protection. His government did not let him down. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/122 "2010-10-07T12:53:30Z")
(did not read the whole thread yet, sorry!) I gotta say, it’s about time. You had to know, that sooner or later, the ‘for profit model’ that has served so well for health care, would find it’s way into fire services! Your nation is devolving to third world status, where you have to grease someone’s palm for the police to investigate anything. Today fire services, tomorrow police services! Onward Capitalism! Predatory capitalism at it’s finest. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/123 "2010-10-07T13:41:33Z")
Suck it up! He made his choices, he didn’t pay the fee. At some point there has to be punishment. If the FD went out and put it out every time, they would never get any money. Why would anyone pay? These assholes brought it on themselves for not voting in their tax. You can bet people will pay their $75 now. elbows, go to hell. You didn’t read the thread, you have no idea what’s going on. I certainly don’t have to grease anyone’s palm to get my fire services - I pay my taxes, and included in those taxes is this service. Because my county isn’t rock stupid. THEY VOTED TO DO THIS TO THEMSELVES. Half the people in this thread don’t even seem to realize that. As for Rand Rover, I consider myself a liberal and I certainly don’t agree with Crannick. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/124 "2010-10-07T16:08:46Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Next time someone complains that conservatives lack compasion, I’ll link to this thread as a counter-point. I’m shocked that anyone, no less this number of people, think that someone forgetting to pay a fee - the article I read said he claimed that he thought he’d paid - should result in someone losing their home when the firefighters were right there. Yeah, because this guy would have zero reason to \*lie \*about why he didn’t pay the fee. I bet you think we should also do something about the epidemic of homework-eating dogs sweeping the nation, too. The guy only later claimed he “forgot.” He initially said he thought they’d come put out the fire anyway if he didn’t pay–like they’d done for him in the past. So he decided to be a freeloading asshole, because he could get the benefit without paying for it. They have a system in place to send you multiple reminders if you don’t pay the fee. There’s no way he just “forgot.” > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > A wise person said the following on this subject in the GD thread: > > > [@](#): > > > > This thread very nicely illustrates the failure in the thought processes (if any) of the SDMB lefty contingent (hereafter, the “SDMBLC”). Please consider your post in combination with the one quoted directly above you, you fucking retard. Nice logic there, assholes. At the same time, the board’s liberals are (a) uncompassionate for saying that the guy got what he deserved, and (b) morons for thinking that the fire department should have put out the fire anyway. I know that a lot of the people in this thread who think the homeowner got exactly what he deserved, including myself, are liberal. Shall I start a poll to prove yet again what an idiot you are? > [@Quimby](#): > > Freeloader?! Seriously?! People are free loaders because they expect their government to hold society together and put out a fucking fire? I suppose he was a freeloader because police protected him from getting robbed and raped and total lazy ass because the military is keeping foreign nations from invading his front yard. I will use small words, because you appear to be very confused. You give the people who run the area where you live money. In most places, we call this money “taxes.” Because you give them money, they do things for you. The police officer is paid with your money. The fire fighter is paid with your money. The person in the Army is paid with your money. In the place where this man lived, they did not want to pay taxes to have a fire department. So they could pay money to the fire fighters instead. This was a very small amount of money. This man was cheap and lazy. He saw that even if he did not pay, the fire fighters would still save him. So he did not pay. The first time, they saved him. But the second time, they said no, if you did not pay, you will not get what you did not pay for. Because we need to be able to help the people who did pay. Do you understand now, or am I going to have to move to stick figure drawings? ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/125 "2010-10-07T16:24:58Z")
Guess what: [I made a poll](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=581018)! Go vote for how your political leanings line up with your opinion of the actions of the firefighters. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/126 "2010-10-07T16:30:01Z")
If you can’t depend on the government for emergency services, protection, and basic infrastructure, then what are we paying all these taxes for? Seriously, real estate tax, personal property tax, sales tax, income tax. And then for lack of $75 they can’t come spray water on your burning house. The house that just went down in assessed value from probably $150,000 to whatever the value of the land itself is. So instead of waiving their precious $75 they are probably losing $1,000+ in property taxes until the house is rebuilt. Edit: Ok I see it was a neighboring locality that is responding to the fire, but seriously, do these guys have no honor? They drive the truck all the way out there and then watch someone’s house burn down because of some agreement or lack thereof? They shouldn’t call themselves firefighters if they don’t, you know, FIGHT FIRES! ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/127 "2010-10-07T16:33:42Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > If you can’t depend on the government for emergency services, protection, and basic infrastructure, then what are we paying all these taxes for? Seriously, real estate tax, personal property tax, sales tax, income tax. And then for lack of $75 they can’t come spray water on your burning house. The house that just went down in assessed value from probably $150,000 to whatever the value of the land itself is. So instead of waiving their precious $75 they are probably losing $1,000+ in property taxes until the house is rebuilt. Have you not read, like, _anything_ about this? The county _does not pay taxes for fire_. The $75 IS their half-assed version of a fire department tax! ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/128 "2010-10-07T16:40:48Z")
Hey guys, I’m just stumbling upon this thread and I totally haven’t read a single thing about it or been following along, but WTF?! Seriously, this is bullshit! Taxes! Morals and ethics! Arglebarglegargle! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/129 "2010-10-07T16:47:31Z")
If the person’s locality is not providing fire service, I think that’s a serious breach of the government performing it’s basic duty. They are firefighters, they showed up but didn’t put out the damn fire. Bill him $75 after the fact if money is so important. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/130 "2010-10-07T16:48:35Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > If the person’s locality is not providing fire service, I think that’s a serious breach of the government performing it’s basic duty. > > They are firefighters, they showed up but didn’t put out the damn fire. Bill him $75 after the fact if money is so important. :smack: Fuck, man, this isn’t the pro bono thread. There’s only 3 pages to read. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/131 "2010-10-07T17:01:20Z")
What specifically in the thread are you referring to? His locality didn’t provide fire service. I said that should not be permitted. Firefighters came and didn’t put out the fire. I said they aren’t good firefighters if they don’t FIGHT FIRES. Am I missing some big revelation that should make me totally change my opinion on that? ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/132 "2010-10-07T17:04:12Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > What specifically in the thread are you referring to? His locality didn’t provide fire service. I said that should not be permitted. Firefighters came and didn’t put out the fire. I said they aren’t good firefighters if they don’t FIGHT FIRES. Am I missing some big revelation that should make me totally change my opinion on that? I agree that it’s a stupid situation and they need to fix it. What I was :smack: about is the “just bill him $75 after the fact.” [I already explained](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12996557&postcount=85) why that’s a stupid idea. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/133 "2010-10-07T17:09:43Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > I agree that it’s a stupid situation and they need to fix it. What I was :smack: about is the “just bill him $75 after the fact.” [I already explained](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12996557&postcount=85) why that’s a stupid idea. I will agree with you there, billing after the fact is not a practical idea. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/134 "2010-10-07T17:32:58Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > What specifically in the thread are you referring to? His locality didn’t provide fire service. I said that should not be permitted. Firefighters came and didn’t put out the fire. I said they aren’t good firefighters if they don’t FIGHT FIRES. Am I missing some big revelation that should make me totally change my opinion on that? I dare you to go to Fulton county and proclaim how you know better how to run their government than the citizens of said county. They voted to not have fire service. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/135 "2010-10-07T17:35:04Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Of course, I’m also shocked that they don’t have paid or volunteer firefighters in their own town, too, and actually voted it down. I don’t enjoy paying taxes, but if there isn’t a sucessful volunteer FF/EMT staff (there is in my town, and they’re far more busy with ambulance services than fire given there are only 3,000 or so homes) then of course it’s important to pay a tax for it. Fire isn’t something you just hope doesn’t strike a town, which is apparently what they were doing prior to this subscription service. You should read up a bit more, you’re incorrect on a bunch of details. Cranick doesn’t live in a town, he lives in the county. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/136 "2010-10-07T17:44:19Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > I dare you to go to Fulton county and proclaim how you know better how to run their government than the citizens of said county. They voted to not have fire service. I’d be more than happy to. “The current system you have isn’t working. The municipal fire departments require funding to be able to operate outside city limits, so just not paying is going to result in more burned houses. Further, because of the risk to the land outside each owner’s personal property, optional payment is not an optimal solution either. I recognize that a tax was voted down before, but that was before we saw what happened with a non-tax system. I strongly recommend voting to allow the county to collect additional tax which it can then use to contract with the municipalities on the residents’ behalf. This will result in a lower cost and increased safety across the board.” I’m sure I’d be called a commie for it, though. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/137 "2010-10-07T17:46:03Z")
The homeowner who did not pay the $75 is an idiot. The taxpayers who voted down a small tax increase in order to extend fire protection to all are idiots The system that even allows voters to turn down a small tax increase for fire protection is idiotic. A mature society realizes that people in general are poor at assessing risk. It is to the benefit of the entire society if fire protection is extended to all, and that all are required to pay for it. It’s a necessary function of government. Without these basic functions of government, we are reduced a bunch of scrabbling individuals with much fewer comforts and services. Civilization as we know it consists of groups of people coming together and specializing so that we don’t have to do everything ourselves. The US suffers from the idealized (and inaccurate) vision of the “rugged individualist” who does everything themselves, and does not need any interference for the damn gubmmint. Libertarians will no doubt vociferously disagree, and will have all sorts of theoretical claptrap about why real life situations should be totally different from our observations. The bottom line in this case, is that if essentials like fire protection are left up to individuals, then some of these individuals will make poor decisions based on a poor grasp of risk assessment. The net result is a bunch of burned down buildings, and increased risk to others, which leads to a poorer society for everyone. I don’t think the general economy is helped every time a house burns down. See [Broken Window Fallacy)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window) ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/138 "2010-10-07T17:54:20Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > The taxpayers who voted down a small tax increase in order to extend fire protection to all are idiots “People always prefer self-government to good government.” Desraeli ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/139 "2010-10-07T18:07:53Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > > > The taxpayers who voted down a small tax increase in order to extend fire protection to all are idiots > > “People always prefer self-government to good government.” Desraeli Thank God most people where I live prefer to live by “Peace, Order and Good Government”, rather than “I’ll do it my own damn self, get the Gubbmint away from me” ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210/140 "2010-10-07T18:27:58Z")
People that think they should extend fire protection to everyone are fucking idiots. It is not feasible, this is a huge country and much of it is rural. I know a guy that has a cabin 30 miles into the woods, it has no fire protection, it shouldn’t have fire protection. Dipshits, they didn’t vote to get rid of fire protection, they never had it and didn’t want it. It’s harder to get loans to build a house in areas without fire protection. It costs more to get insurance in areas without fire protection. It was known to everyone what the risks were. This piece of shit home owner should just move to city, because he obviously doesn’t get it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-pay-up-or-we-let-your-house-burn-down/556210.md?page=8)