# WTF? The Astrodome is FULL? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 2, 2005, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-the-astrodome-is-full/319699 "2005-09-02T03:54:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-the-astrodome-is-full/319699/41 "2005-09-02T05:59:24Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Actually it isn’t. Go back and look at Steph’s original asseertion, which was that the crowd iside the Superdome was rioting and dangerous and as a result refugees were turned away from the Astrodome. Hence “degenerating.” I hope we have resolved the “is it a riot or isn’t it?” thing, but maybe I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-the-astrodome-is-full/319699/42 "2005-09-02T06:00:50Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Actually it isn’t. Go back and look at Steph’s original asseertion, which was that the crowd iside the Superdome was rioting and dangerous and as a result refugees were turned away from the Astrodome. Once again, you are wrong and easily proven so. I never “asserted” any such thing. My original post: \ ***Maybe** they were planning to really fill the place up…until reports of rioting and rape began leaking out of the damn SuperDome. \*\*It looks to me \*\* like you’d be putting a dangerous crowd into another explosive situation. 5000 \*_might \*\* be an easier number to handle._ Understand? OK. Good. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-the-astrodome-is-full/319699/43 "2005-09-02T06:04:49Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Why don’t _you_ put some of these ‘nice folks’ up in _your_ place? Put your money where your mouth is, jackass. I forgot to answer this vile strawman. I am a single man living in a smallish one-bedroom apartment in Denver, Colorado. If someone from New Orleans wends their way the 1400 miles to the couch in my living room, they are welcome to it. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-the-astrodome-is-full/319699/44 "2005-09-02T06:06:04Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Once again, you are wrong and easily proven so. I never “asserted” any such thing. My original post: > > \ ***Maybe** they were planning to really fill the place up…until reports of rioting and rape began leaking out of the damn SuperDome. \*\*It looks to me \*\* like you’d be putting a dangerous crowd into another explosive situation. 5000 \*_might \*\* be an easier number to handle._ > > Understand? OK. Good. Point taken. You said maybe. Weasely as it is, it still fails as you have not established points one and two, or any reasonable link to a “maybe” decision if you had established points one and two. And I’m still waiting for that retraction, you mealy-mouthed motherfucker. Got it? Good. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-the-astrodome-is-full/319699/45 "2005-09-02T06:06:08Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Once again, you are wrong and easily proven so. I never “asserted” any such thing. My original post: > > \ ***Maybe** they were planning to really fill the place up…until reports of rioting and rape began leaking out of the damn SuperDome. \*\*It looks to me \*\* like you’d be putting a dangerous crowd into another explosive situation. 5000 \*_might \*\* be an easier number to handle._ > > Understand? OK. Good. You master of innuendo, you. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-the-astrodome-is-full/319699/46 "2005-09-02T06:07:16Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Point taken. You said maybe. Weasely as it is, it still fails as you have not established points one and two, or any reasonable link to a “maybe” decision if you had established points one and two. > > And I’m still waiting for that retraction, you mealy-mouthed motherfucker. Got it? Good. You know what? I should’ve replaced “riot” with “murder.” It scans so much better. As for your retraction? Bite me. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-the-astrodome-is-full/319699/47 "2005-09-02T06:12:32Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I said a series of incidents, awful as they are, within a large population don’t constitute a riot. If 20,000 people were rioting, you’d see worse than six murders and 12 rapes. Obviously, most people just want a safe place to be. That being said, there was definitely rioting. When an angry mob drives away 88 members of the National Guard, that’s a riot, no matter how you look at it. It makes sense to keep the concentration down and try to spread folks out – because inhuman conditions naturally lead to rioting. I can hardly comprehend the logistics of trying to find safe refuges for all those people in a timely manner. **Stephe96** is being an ass by laying it all at the feet of the refugees. “Murdering, raping crowd” invites a fallacy of division. Obviously, the crowd isn’t mostly murderers or rapists, but if you jam that many stressed-out people into one place, you’re going to get a powder-keg that’s going to lead to rioting, raping, and murdering. Unless we _want_ that for the refugees, it’s better to spread 'em out. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-the-astrodome-is-full/319699/48 "2005-09-02T06:14:24Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > I forgot to answer this vile strawman. I am a single man living in a smallish one-bedroom apartment in Denver, Colorado. If someone from New Orleans wends their way the 1400 miles to the couch in my living room, they are welcome to it. I’m wondering if that might actually be how things shake out. I am in NC which is a bit closer. With over 1,000,000 refugees there is a need for a lot of beds. I have a small house I could lend out and bunk with a friend if need be. > [@Steph](#): > > You know what? I should’ve replaced “riot” with “murder.” It scans so much better. You just don’t get the logic thing, do you? Proving that the crowd is murderous is much more difficult than proving it is riotous. It is all well and good to reach outside one’s grasp, but you really should try to stay in the same county with it. > [@Steph](#): > > As for your retraction? Bite me. You have made a scurrilous accusation and refused to defend it. Were there any doubts remaining concerning your character they have been erased. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-the-astrodome-is-full/319699/49 "2005-09-02T06:14:27Z")
You know, another way to put the question might be this: why couldn’t a crowd of some 16,000 (mostly) nice people manage to _prevent_ 12 murders and six rapes? ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-the-astrodome-is-full/319699/50 "2005-09-02T06:16:32Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > You have made a scurrilous accusation and refused to defend it. Were there any doubts remaining concerning your character they have been erased. Believe me, I’ll sleep just fine at night knowing that a fuckface like you has problems with my “character.” Oh, and good luck with your ‘guests.’ ---
**Author:** ![Craneop2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Craneop2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Craneop2)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-the-astrodome-is-full/319699/51 "2005-09-02T06:19:17Z")
I watched on live TV. I must say that given the conditions that these folks have been living in for the past few days. Promised some better conditions at a new location hundreds of miles from home. Upon reaching that new better place, large numbers were told that they were not welcome. They were EXTEMELY calm and under controll of their senses. There was NO rioting or anger. Most were just tired and hungry. Just looking for a place to rest for a few hours and maybe something to eat. When the busses began rolling again there was only hope and relief on most of the faces. Hopefullty the demeanor there will be more civil than I have seen recently on this board. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-the-astrodome-is-full/319699/52 "2005-09-02T06:19:41Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > You know, another way to put the question might be this: why couldn’t a crowd of some 16,000 (mostly) nice people manage to _prevent_ 12 murders and six rapes? How could they be expected to? Put yourself there. Whaddya gonna do, Superman? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-the-astrodome-is-full/319699/53 "2005-09-02T06:20:33Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > Obviously, most people just want a safe place to be. That being said, there was definitely rioting. When an angry mob drives away 88 members of the National Guard, that’s a riot, no matter how you look at it. Yes, that is. My apologies for not having my whole attention here, I was also transcribing a tape for an article I need to finish for tomorrow morning. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-the-astrodome-is-full/319699/54 "2005-09-02T06:20:52Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > You just don’t get the logic thing, do you? Proving that the crowd is murderous is much more difficult than proving it is riotous. It is all well and good to reach outside one’s grasp, but you really should try to stay in the same county with it. > . Try _this_ for logic, moron. I would change ‘riot’ to ‘murder’ because morons like you have trouble comprehending what a riot is actually like. Since nobody in the article used the word ‘riot,’ thus providing a simpleton like yourself with ‘proof,’ I would substitute the word ‘murder.’ After all, even as stupid as you seem to be, even _you_ cannot deny that there were, in fact, murders committed in the Superdome. Now. Do _you_ “get the logic thing?” ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-the-astrodome-is-full/319699/55 "2005-09-02T06:22:06Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > . When an angry mob drives away 88 members of the National Guard, that’s a riot, no matter how you look at it. I have not seen that cited in this thread. Can you point me to it? ---
**Author:** ![MissGypsy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8491ac/32.png) [@MissGypsy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissGypsy)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-the-astrodome-is-full/319699/56 "2005-09-02T06:22:43Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > I believe that nobody should be forced to take in a murdering, raping crowd under _any_ circumstances! Where will they go after the Astrodome is destroyed? Fenway Park? Why don’t _you_ put some of these ‘nice folks’ up in _your_ place? Put your money where your mouth is, jackass. > > What’s that old saying? “If you want to be loved, act lovable.” Since when do 18 (or fewer) people out of 20,000+ constitute a “crowd”? You’ve mentioned 18 crimes, so even assuming each crime was committed by a separate individual, do you honestly believe that 18 people in the midst of 20,000+ are a “crowd”? And for the record, I’d be happy to put up some folks at my place. Beats seeing them starve or die. If you actually believe that every single individual who was displaced by the hurricane is a criminal, then you’re utterly ignorant. Tell me why those dehydrated babies are criminals. Tell me why those terrified toddlers are in the wrong. I’m glad that you’ve been able to live in your ivory palace for your entire life, but not everyone is born into royalty, princess. Perhaps someday you’ll understand what it’s like to be old, or disabled, or poor, or god forbid, unwanted. On preview: > [@Stephe96](#): > > You know, another way to put the question might be this: why couldn’t a crowd of some 16,000 (mostly) nice people manage to _prevent_ 12 murders and six rapes? I dunno, why can’t a society of 280,000,000 (mostly) nice people manage to _prevent_ hundreds of thousands of murders and rapes? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-the-astrodome-is-full/319699/57 "2005-09-02T06:26:55Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Try _this_ for logic, moron. I would change ‘riot’ to ‘murder’ because morons like you have trouble comprehending what a riot is actually like. Since nobody in the article used the word ‘riot,’ thus providing a simpleton like yourself with ‘proof,’ I would substitute the word ‘murder.’ After all, even as stupid as you seem to be, even _you_ cannot deny that there were, in fact, murders committed in the Superdome. > > Now. Do _you_ “get the logic thing?” You are just embarassing yourself here. Your point was that the **crowd** was exhibiting a particular behavior. Fort the **crowd** to be murderous you would have to show that a significant portion of 16,000 people had committed murders, or at the very least participated in them. That is why the burden of proof is higher. You continue to pesist in this delusion that the behavior of the few describes the behavior of the many, and that the many should be made to suffer for it. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-the-astrodome-is-full/319699/58 "2005-09-02T06:28:41Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > You are just embarassing yourself here. Your point was that the **crowd** was exhibiting a particular behavior. Fort the **crowd** to be murderous you would have to show that a significant portion of 16,000 people had committed murders, or at the very least participated in them. That is why the burden of proof is higher. You continue to pesist in this delusion that the behavior of the few describes the behavior of the many, and that the many should be made to suffer for it. Just let me know when you’re ready to admit it is/was a riot. I’ll go back to using that word. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-the-astrodome-is-full/319699/59 "2005-09-02T06:34:53Z")
> [@Stephe96](#): > > Just let me know when you’re ready to admit it is/was a riot. I’ll go back to using that word. Well which is it, for fuck’s sake? Show me the cite for the riot. And have you abandoned the murderous crowd charge, or do plan to hold it in reserve? It certainly wasn’t/isn’t a riot this afternoon when they were being loaded into buses. I was watching. It was quite orderly. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-the-astrodome-is-full/319699/60 "2005-09-02T06:35:48Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > I have not seen that cited in this thread. Can you point me to it? Whoops… Looking for an [article](http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-5249697,00.html), I realize now that that was at the Convention centre, not the Superdome. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-the-astrodome-is-full/319699.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-the-astrodome-is-full/319699.md?page=4)