# WTF tomndebb
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-tomndebb/583711
**Category:** About This Message Board
**Created:** [May 29, 2011, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-tomndebb/583711 "2011-05-29T23:50:11Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)
#### Post date: [May 29, 2011, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-tomndebb/583711/1 "2011-05-29T23:50:11Z")
Ok, on this page ( [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=609482&page=3](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=609482&page=3) ) you issue a warning to Sevastopol for the shitty reason that he cant use absurd reasoning pushed to its extremes. It’s quite a stupid reason considering that, at the very same moment, **CitizenPained** threadshits and spams on every Israel thread without ever getting a warning for it (I think she got one with Dio, hasnt stopped her spamming).
And then there’s this:
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13857641&postcount=152](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13857641&postcount=152)
WTF, even if, by your own criteria he was previously trolling, he didnt add anything that suddenly justified a banning out of nowhere.
P.S: I absolutely dont share the views of **Sevastopol** on the question but inane reasoning shouldnt have to have extra ironclad armour when in favor of the Palestinians and free passes when it is dipped in uber-zionism.
---
### Author:  [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2011, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-tomndebb/583711/2 "2011-05-30T00:10:17Z")
The guy claimed that Israelis - _all_ of them - had “innate and incurable moral deficiencies.” This is hate speech, a violation of the rules. Whatever **CitizenPained** may have done, she has not said anything so blatantly bigoted.
---
### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2011, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-tomndebb/583711/3 "2011-05-30T00:11:40Z")
Banned. Won’t be missed.
---
### Author:  [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2011, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-tomndebb/583711/4 "2011-05-30T00:18:07Z")
But **AT** , I’m pretty sure what \*\*Sevastopol \*\*said was that considering that Israel shouldnt be called on on its actions would be considering that Israelis arent to be held to the same standards through which we would judge any other nation.
Basically, his stance seems to me to have been, you shouldnt make special rules for Israelis. Doing so means you dont consider them on par with humanity.
English isnt my first language so maybe I misread it, but I have the feeling you, like **tomndebb** and **Marley** skipread his posts and just focused on the outrageous stuff. Wherehas the outrageous stuff was precisely the point he was trying to make.
---
### Author:  [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2011, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-tomndebb/583711/5 "2011-05-30T00:46:15Z")
I definitely got exasperated, but I didn’t violate any rules ( I don’t think? ) as I didn’t feel it was fair to cry _oh for shame_ on an Israeli for making legitimate points about history…considering Elvis’s continuing posts on how Israelis absolutely don’t want peace (and apparently, I don’t either?) I was fed up. How many times has Allesan been asked (and not sincerely) for a solution? wtf?
I honestly don’t think I violated a rule, and if I had, Tom would have called me out on it. He’s pretty good at that. 😃
I also thought _threadshitting_ is when you derail a topic, but that thread is full of, “Israelis steal land/commit genocide/commit war crimes/are imperialist racists/etc.”, soooo…I’m pretty sure my response was weak.
> [@If not the Green Line, then what line should be the Israel-Palestine border?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-the-green-line-then-what-line-should-be-the-israel-palestine-border/582805/20):
>
> I’d rather see Palestine expel some illegal immigrants,.
> [@If not the Green Line, then what line should be the Israel-Palestine border?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-the-green-line-then-what-line-should-be-the-israel-palestine-border/582805/21):
>
> The settlers are criminals. Why should they be defended?
> [@If not the Green Line, then what line should be the Israel-Palestine border?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-the-green-line-then-what-line-should-be-the-israel-palestine-border/582805/60):
>
> And let’s face it, Hamas, peace be upon them
> [@If not the Green Line, then what line should be the Israel-Palestine border?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-the-green-line-then-what-line-should-be-the-israel-palestine-border/582805/79):
>
> Peace is a complete fantasy. The only thing the current Israeli government is interested in is doing absolutely nothing. They intend to keep taking the territory they feel is rightfully theirs and no real percentage of Americans or Israelis will ever voice an argument against it. The only peace agreement the Palestinians can get is to be completely subjugated, to let themselves be entirely ruled over by the whims of the Israeli government, and to allow this under the false notion of two states.
> [@If not the Green Line, then what line should be the Israel-Palestine border?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-the-green-line-then-what-line-should-be-the-israel-palestine-border/582805/106):
>
> The discussion shows the need for clarity and codification. The proper role of the UN is to keep a register of ethnicities and nationalities, who owing to incurable moral defects, cannot be expected to meet minimum standards of decency. By a fair summary of this discussion the Israelis are in.
>
> How was **Redfury** to know Israel is viewed on par with the brute quadrupeds; dogs, sheep and swine? We need a register and a link to it.
> [@If not the Green Line, then what line should be the Israel-Palestine border?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-the-green-line-then-what-line-should-be-the-israel-palestine-border/582805/111):
>
> And that attitude of exceptionalism is yet another obstacle to peace, isn’t it? Along with trapping oneself in a carefully-massaged view of the past, refusing to consider the possibility that the world today does not reflect that comfortingly repeated self-image if it ever did, that nobody has anything worthwhile to say to you that you do not already believe, that nobody else’s experiences have any applicability to yours …
>
> IOW, get over yourselves already. Be part of the solution.
> [@If not the Green Line, then what line should be the Israel-Palestine border?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-the-green-line-then-what-line-should-be-the-israel-palestine-border/582805/113):
>
> It is a fair summary of the discussion: To wit we cannot hold Israelis to the same standard as normal, civilized people. That being their conviction they should have the courage to say so.
> [@If not the Green Line, then what line should be the Israel-Palestine border?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-the-green-line-then-what-line-should-be-the-israel-palestine-border/582805/149):
>
> Since the Israeli politics place so much weight onto their perceived divine claim of belonging on someone else’s land, the only right thing to do is carve out a space in the Sahara Desert in Africa and call it Israel.
>
> I don’t think anyone would disagree with the validity of my proposition. Not on religious grounds, at least.
> [@If not the Green Line, then what line should be the Israel-Palestine border?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-the-green-line-then-what-line-should-be-the-israel-palestine-border/582805/154):
>
> OK, let’s start with the genocide and the land grab of the past 60 years… no matter who was in charge.
>
> A claim of a divine right of other people’s land is a criminal offense.
> [@If not the Green Line, then what line should be the Israel-Palestine border?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-the-green-line-then-what-line-should-be-the-israel-palestine-border/582805/161):
>
> So, it would be genocide if only someone would accuse France of genocide too?
>
> Israel is an imposed political entity based on a religious belief that other people’s land belongs to a group of people that happened to be born from a specific female’s genital pathway.
>
> The rest is just religious intolerance, hate and mental disorder.
> [@If not the Green Line, then what line should be the Israel-Palestine border?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-the-green-line-then-what-line-should-be-the-israel-palestine-border/582805/164):
>
> Probably must have meant ethnic cleansing. BTW, France got a lot of heat during the Algerian war precisely because of its actions.
> But I guess France should have followed the path suggested here by other posters and tell the world to go fuck itself with its moral reprimands.
plus the [antisemitism](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=608604) and the [67 thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=609155).
When people are hellbent on blaming Israel for everything, I do wonder what that’s all about.
Zombie has to make a deal about something I do every other day. I guess if there’s a whole ATMB thread about my response in the thread, I did something right.
---
### Author:  [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2011, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-tomndebb/583711/6 "2011-05-30T05:27:37Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#):
>
> English isnt my first language so maybe I misread it, but I have the feeling you, like **tomndebb** and **Marley** skipread his posts and just focused on the outrageous stuff. Wherehas the outrageous stuff was precisely the point he was trying to make.
Perhaps English isn’t _his_ first language. He made inflammatory statements. Maybe he didn’t mean them the way they came out, but the way they came out seemed like blanket derision of all Jewish Israelis. He was told not to do that, but argued the point and repeated the same derisive statements even after being warned. Twice before.
If the point was “We should hold Israelis/Israel/Jews accountable for their war crimes,” he should have found a better way to say it. Like
“Why are we giving Israelies a free pass for war crimes/immoral acts? Why do Americans and the West seem to want to ignore their moral failings?”
Or something like that. I don’t really know what his point is. I’m not advocating that position, either.
---
### Author:  [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2011, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-tomndebb/583711/7 "2011-05-30T06:24:53Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#):
>
> When people are hellbent on blaming Israel for everything, I do wonder what that’s all about.
I think this is a very inflammatory statement.
I think it’s a not-so-veiled accusation of anti-semitism. You “do wonder what that’s all about?” Really? What have you come up with?
When I read that, it seems very clear to me what you are trying to convey.
---
### Author:  [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2011, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-tomndebb/583711/8 "2011-05-30T08:47:45Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#):
>
> I think this is a very inflammatory statement.
>
> I think it’s a not-so-veiled accusation of anti-semitism. You “do wonder what that’s all about?” Really? What have you come up with?
>
> When I read that, it seems very clear to me what you are trying to convey.
When people blame a country for everything - no matter what the history, no matter what the evidence, no matter what the situation - I _do_ wonder what that’s all about. You don’t?
It goes against all logic. So either someone is being a jerk on purpose or they’re just a few crayons short of a full set. If you found my statement inflammatory in light of being told that I belong to a family of genocidal criminals, _damn_. I don’t know what to tell you.
---
### Author:  [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2011, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-tomndebb/583711/9 "2011-05-30T09:56:10Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#):
>
> When people blame a country for everything - no matter what the history, no matter what the evidence, no matter what the situation - I _do_ wonder what that’s all about. You don’t?
>
> It goes against all logic. So either someone is being a jerk on purpose or they’re just a few crayons short of a full set. If you found my statement inflammatory in light of being told that I belong to a family of genocidal criminals, _damn_. I don’t know what to tell you.
I don’t understand what you mean by “If you found my statement inflammatory in light of being told that I belong to a family of genocidal criminals…”
Can you explain that please?
And just so I understand your point of view, you are jewish, correct?
---
### Author:  [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2011, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-tomndebb/583711/10 "2011-05-30T13:48:32Z")
People, this is ATMB, and the thread topic is **tomndebb** ’s moderation.
If you want to talk about Israel, please return to Great Debates.
**twickster** , for the SDMB
---
### Author:  [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2011, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-tomndebb/583711/11 "2011-05-30T13:49:35Z")
Why is this even an issue? He denigrated an entire race/nation\* of people in an absolutely textbook example of how to break the “hate speech” rule and he got suspended and hopefully banned. And this isn’t the first time he’s done this: IIRC he once stated publically that he wanted Tel Aviv (?) nuked. I think he was suspended for that.
I’d think you anti-Zionists would be happy to see an actual anti-Semite banned.
\*Pick whichever word you want.
---
### Author:  [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-tomndebb/583711/12 "2011-05-30T14:03:23Z")
> [@Fenris](#):
>
> Why is this even an issue? He denigrated an entire race/nation\* of people in an absolutely textbook example of how to break the “hate speech” rule and he got suspended and hopefully banned. And this isn’t the first time he’s done this: IIRC he once stated publically that he wanted Tel Aviv (?) nuked. I think he was suspended for that.
>
> I’d think you anti-Zionists would be happy to see an actual anti-Semite banned.
Except that he hasnt here. IF he had been going on boilerplate rants about the pleasure he"d have in slaughtering Israelis, there wouldnt be anything to add but good riddance.
He didnt say that Israelis were animals nor did he say that Israelis dont have any morals in them. He said cutting some slack to Israel was akin to that.
I’d like someone to be banned for good reasons, especially in an Israel thread, and especially in a thread where taking a daily shitting on the non-entity that are Palestinians happen on a daily routine without any mod intervention.
---
### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2011, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-tomndebb/583711/13 "2011-05-30T14:14:46Z")
I think that his analogy wasn’t ban-worthy. He wasnt calling Israelis animals, but rather drawing an absurdist conclusion from his strawman an opponents. However, his failure to follow instructions and change his tone or find another way to make his point after even being offered an example by the mod would definitely justify action, I think.
---
### Author:  [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2011, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-tomndebb/583711/14 "2011-05-30T15:03:08Z")
He was not banned. He was suspended.
When a moderator suspends someone, the message board software automatically changes that person’s title to “banned” (the software considers a suspension to be a ban with a time limit). An administrator must then manually change the title from “banned” to “suspended.” If you happen to view the thread between the time the moderator does the suspension and the time the administrator changes the title, suspensions look like bans.
---
### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2011, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-tomndebb/583711/15 "2011-05-30T15:10:00Z")
> [@Fenris](#):
>
> Why is this even an issue? He denigrated an entire race/nation\* of people in an absolutely textbook example of how to break the “hate speech”
That’s pretty much how I saw it. I understand that **Sevastopol** _purported_ to be making an analogy - “your argument treats Israelis as if they were morally deficient” - but he has a track record with comments like this. And on top of that, he kept making those comments after **tomndebb** and I told him to stop and instructed him on what was allowed and what isn’t. That’s how he wound up with four warnings in about a day, and that’s why his posting privileges are under review.
---
### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2011, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-tomndebb/583711/16 "2011-05-30T15:16:06Z")
After the animal comparison, Sevastopol was told to back off. Instead, he went on to claim that Israelis are innately immoral. When he was told to stop that, he came back and repeated it in direct flouting of the instructions to him.
Had he limited himself to claims that Israel or Israelis get special treatment or special consideration, I would not have batted an eye. The whole topic raises passions to the point of near insanity among a lot of people. However, making a claim that an entire people are incapable, from birth, of morality is nothing more than trolling. It is an incitement to get one’s opponents to lash back and totally disrupt the (already acrimonious) thread.
His Warnings were for trolling and for refusing to comply with Moderator instructions. They stand.
---
### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2011, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-tomndebb/583711/17 "2011-05-30T15:18:59Z")
It makes sense to me. If anyone responded to mod instructions in that way, action would bs justified.
---
### Author:  [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2011, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-tomndebb/583711/18 "2011-05-30T15:42:54Z")
> [@tomndebb](#):
>
> After the animal comparison, Sevastopol was told to back off. Instead, he went on to claim that Israelis are innately immoral.
He has never said that.
> [@Acsenray](#):
>
> It makes sense to me. If anyone responded to mod instructions in that way, action would bs justified.
I can understand mods acting on previous warnings, not one poster’s messages being completely (or willingly) misunderstood by some mods, and _then_ acting on it.
I’m not about to be beating a dead horse till the End Times though. I’m done on the subject.
Thanks for the answers, mods.
---
### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2011, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-tomndebb/583711/19 "2011-05-30T15:59:47Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#):
>
> > [@tomndebb](#):
> >
> > After the animal comparison, Sevastopol was told to back off. Instead, he went on to claim that Israelis are innately immoral.
>
> He has never said that.
> [@If not the Green Line, then what line should be the Israel-Palestine border?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-the-green-line-then-what-line-should-be-the-israel-palestine-border/582805/122):
>
> 2 - Official acknowledgement of the innate / incurable moral deficiency of Israelis
> [@If not the Green Line, then what line should be the Israel-Palestine border?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/if-not-the-green-line-then-what-line-should-be-the-israel-palestine-border/582805/128):
>
> - due to an innate defect in Israelis, who cannot be considered morally competent.
Parse it how you wish, my paraphrase is quite close enough to his remarks (and the Warnings quoted the objectionable text, not relying on paraphrase).
---
### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [May 30, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-tomndebb/583711/20 "2011-05-30T16:06:37Z")
The consensus of the Staff is that Sevastopol has warranted a one month suspension.
That has now been implemented (although the “BANNED” status may take a little while to be reset to “SUSPENDED”).
[/Moderating]
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-tomndebb/583711.md?page=2)