# WTF: Woman Says Anti-Abortion Nurse Removed IUD Without Permission, Then Lectured Her **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 19, 2009, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-woman-says-anti-abortion-nurse-removed-iud-without-permission-then-lectured-her/481925 "2009-01-19T02:20:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-woman-says-anti-abortion-nurse-removed-iud-without-permission-then-lectured-her/481925/1 "2009-01-19T02:20:43Z")
A patient is suing [Presbyterian Health Services Rio Rancho Family Health Center](http://www.courthousenews.com/2009/01/14/Woman_Says_Anti-Abortion_Nurse_Removed_IUD_Without_Permission_Then_Lectured_Her.htm) and Nurse Sylvia Olona after the latter removed her IUD when she (the patient) went in to have the strings shortened. Olona, according to the patient said: > [@](#): > > ‘having the IUD come out was a good thing.’ She asked (the plaintiff) if she wanted to hear her ‘take’ on the situation. Without receiving a response, Defendant Olona stated, ‘I personally do not like IUDs. I feel they are a type of abortion. I don’t know how you feel about abortion, but I am against them. What the IUD does is take the fertilized egg and pushes it out of the uterus.’ Olona’s defense is that this always happens: > [@](#): > > ‘Everyone in the office always laughs and tells me I pull these out on purpose because I am against them, but it’s not true, they accidentally come out when I tug.’ IF the plaintiff is telling the truth, why has this woman not been fired instantly? And even IF what Olona is saying is true, why is anyone allowing her to perform this procedure, if this always seems to happen to her? She’s basically admitting that she’s completely incompetant and shouldn’t be allowed near a patient. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-woman-says-anti-abortion-nurse-removed-iud-without-permission-then-lectured-her/481925/2 "2009-01-19T02:21:56Z")
Wow. This ought to be an entertaining one to hear in court. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-woman-says-anti-abortion-nurse-removed-iud-without-permission-then-lectured-her/481925/3 "2009-01-19T02:24:50Z")
> [@](#): > > IF the plaintiff is telling the truth, why has this woman not been fired instantly? And even IF what Olona is saying is true, why is anyone allowing her to perform this procedure, if this always seems to happen to her? She’s basically admitting that she’s completely incompetant and shouldn’t be allowed near a patient. This nurse should be suspended until these questions are answered. If she frequently removes IUDs without patient permission, then she needs to have her nursing license revoked. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-woman-says-anti-abortion-nurse-removed-iud-without-permission-then-lectured-her/481925/4 "2009-01-19T02:35:42Z")
> [@](#): > > IF the plaintiff is telling the truth, That’s what court is for, isn’t it? Just because one party’s story jibes with your particular hardon and the other’s does not, doesn’t mean that’s where Truth lies. [QUOTE= Lynn Bodoni] This nurse should be suspended until these questions are answered. [/QUOTE] Deprive her of her job on the say-so of someone off the street? [QUOTE= Lynn Bodoni] If she frequently removes IUDs without patient permission, then she needs to have her nursing license revoked. [/QUOTE] That’s what court is for, isn’t it? Look, the only dog I have in this fight is this: just because some idiot cries that some OTHER idiot did something, the proper cause of action is not napalm it all and then wonder how to sort things out. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-woman-says-anti-abortion-nurse-removed-iud-without-permission-then-lectured-her/481925/5 "2009-01-19T02:54:45Z")
By Olona’s own admission, this doesn’t seem to be an infrequent occurance. So while I wouldn’t place her on suspension, I would definately give her a hands-off directive as far as IUDs are concerned. In writing. And this does appear to be a civil case which takes it from beyond reasonable down to it probably happened that way. Basically the difference between OJ’s criminal and civil trials. One jury said there’s reasonable doubt and the other said, sure there’s doubt, but he probably did it. ---
**Author:** ![Rolken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df788c/32.png) [@Rolken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rolken)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-woman-says-anti-abortion-nurse-removed-iud-without-permission-then-lectured-her/481925/6 "2009-01-19T02:56:00Z")
> [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](#): > > That’s what court is for, isn’t it? If you believe the plaintiff, the nurse was way overstepping her bounds. If you believe the defendant, she was so incompetent that she had no business working in health care. Either way, it doesn’t look good for her. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-woman-says-anti-abortion-nurse-removed-iud-without-permission-then-lectured-her/481925/7 "2009-01-19T03:01:22Z")
> [@](#): > > Deprive her of her job on the say-so of someone off the street? Well, no, on her own say-so. This apparently has happened before, and frequently enough that “everyone in the office” comments on it. If it happens that often, then she needs to be suspended. Even if it happened ONCE, I imagine that most medical offices would not allow her to interact with patients until she has been counselled how to avoid removing IUDs, not to remove the IUD without the patient’s permission, and especially not to remove IUDs and then give the patient a lecture about how IUDs are EVIL. Did you read the link? The NP REFUSED to insert a new IUD, telling the patient to get a “non-abortion” form of birth control. This nurse practitioner should not be allowed to interact with patients until she learns just what she is and is not allowed to do. Pulling IUDs out of patients who want to keep them is NOT ALLOWED. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-woman-says-anti-abortion-nurse-removed-iud-without-permission-then-lectured-her/481925/8 "2009-01-19T03:05:00Z")
Stripping a person of a license is the purview of the licensing body. Their decision may be contested in court, but their initial decision is reached independently of the court. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-woman-says-anti-abortion-nurse-removed-iud-without-permission-then-lectured-her/481925/9 "2009-01-19T03:13:26Z")
Is accidental IUD removal common? Or would you have to really, really suck at it to accidentally remove more than one? ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-woman-says-anti-abortion-nurse-removed-iud-without-permission-then-lectured-her/481925/10 "2009-01-19T03:25:46Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Is accidental IUD removal common? Or would you have to really, really suck at it to accidentally remove more than one? TMI alert: If the one the plaintiff had is similar to the one I had, it’d be in there pretty good. It takes a pretty good tug to pull it out, so the nurse would have to work at it. OTOH, if it’s a different kind of IUD, then I don’t know. I wasn’t there for the conversation, but if the plaintiff is telling the truth, the nurse “accidentally” removes the IUD and is trying to turn it into a “wink wink nudge nudge” kind of thing. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-woman-says-anti-abortion-nurse-removed-iud-without-permission-then-lectured-her/481925/11 "2009-01-19T03:26:43Z")
I kinda figured the TMI answers would come with the TMI question. 😉 Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-woman-says-anti-abortion-nurse-removed-iud-without-permission-then-lectured-her/481925/12 "2009-01-19T03:38:25Z")
[House] Well, you know nuns, once you pop their IUD out, they bounce right back. [/House] ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-woman-says-anti-abortion-nurse-removed-iud-without-permission-then-lectured-her/481925/13 "2009-01-19T03:39:08Z")
I’m both against abortion AND in the medical field myself, and even I think the nurse is in the wrong. Taking the IUD out without permission was completely inappropriate and a major violation. I don’t think this is an accident, since she refused to reinsert the IUD - if she had simply done that, I doubt the patient would have made a stink about this. However, even if this is an accident, I agree that someone who keeps accidentally pulling IUDs out shouldn’t be taking care of patients with IUDs anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-woman-says-anti-abortion-nurse-removed-iud-without-permission-then-lectured-her/481925/14 "2009-01-19T03:55:07Z")
I think that it’s important to realize that this is a nurse practitioner. She has had more training than a nurse, and has more authority, and is able to do things that a nurse can’t legally do. NPs can be a real asset to a clinic. This one, however, is either incompetent or is flagrantly malpracticing. While IUDs can slip out even on their own, she’s doing something wrong if it happens to her more than a time or two. If she is uncomfortable with even adjusting the length of an IUD string, she shouldn’t be seeing patients with IUDs. Since she’s apparently done this before, and refused to put another IUD in, I’d say that she needs to find another line of work. I’ve had a couple of IUDs (and got pregnant with one once, thankyouverymuch), and the procedure to put them in and the removal were both…uncomfortable. Not severely painful, but I do believe that a bit of a warning is warranted. I hope that she is stripped of her license, whether she’s simply incompetent or out-and-out malpracticing. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-woman-says-anti-abortion-nurse-removed-iud-without-permission-then-lectured-her/481925/15 "2009-01-19T04:06:05Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > Well, no, on her own say-so. … Not really, the linked story is quoting the complaint about the nurse, not the nurse herself. So we are reading the complainant’s version of what the nurse said. If it’s true, it ought to be easy enough to verify, especially the part about how everyone in the office knows she’s, er, clumsy, with IUDs. And, unfortunately, I think she can no longer be disciplined for refusing to replace the IUD. IIRC, one of those last minute things President Scumbush pushed through was some new rule about allowing everyone in the medical industry to refuse to participate in procedures thay have moral objections to. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-woman-says-anti-abortion-nurse-removed-iud-without-permission-then-lectured-her/481925/16 "2009-01-19T04:10:03Z")
It gets even better: > [@](#): > > Defendant Olona told (the plaintiff) that is was better that she did not have the IUD because she could now use a “non-abortion” form of contraception. Defendant Olona suggested the deprovera (depo) [sic] shot or the pill, and made clear that she would not insert a new IUD." Unfortunately, there are some pro-life people who believe that Depo Provera and the pill can also cause abortions [cite)](http://www.ashcofriendsforlife.org/birth_control_and_abortion.htm) and who consider using them to be immoral, too. If the woman who’s IUD was removed was only supposed to use pro-life-organization-sanctioned birth control, what was she supposed to use? The female condom? Also, removing the IUD wasn’t painless. According to the article: > [@](#): > > (The plaintiff) felt a distinct pulling on the strings followed by a sharp pain in her uterus similar to a very strong menstrual cramp. This isn’t funny or a joke. It’s deliberately inflicting pain as well as one’s morals on someone else. If it had happened to me, I’d have been furious, too. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-woman-says-anti-abortion-nurse-removed-iud-without-permission-then-lectured-her/481925/17 "2009-01-19T04:16:29Z")
> [@](#): > > And, unfortunately, I think she can no longer be disciplined for refusing to replace the IUD. IIRC, one of those last minute things President Scumbush pushed through was some new rule about allowing everyone in the medical industry to refuse to participate in procedures thay have moral objections to. I think that she can still be disciplined (assuming, of course, that she did it deliberately) for pulling out the IUD. She refused to put in a new IUD, and she might be covered by that rule, but for jerking out the first IUD, I think that she can and should be punished. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-woman-says-anti-abortion-nurse-removed-iud-without-permission-then-lectured-her/481925/18 "2009-01-19T04:20:58Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I think that she can still be disciplined (assuming, of course, that she did it deliberately) for pulling out the IUD. She refused to put in a new IUD, and she might be covered by that rule, but for jerking out the first IUD, I think that she can and should be punished. Yes, I would agree with that. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-woman-says-anti-abortion-nurse-removed-iud-without-permission-then-lectured-her/481925/19 "2009-01-19T04:22:22Z")
My special form of geekery. I looked up Sylvia Olona on the New Mexico Board of Nursing website, which I presume, though I don’t know for sure, licenses NPs as well. Olona is [not](https://www.state.nm.us/bon-bin/lookup2.cgi) licensed by this board. She was last licensed by them in 1976. Here are the possibilities: 1. I’m wrong, and nurse practitioners are not licensed by this board. But “‘certified nurse practitioner’ means a registered nurse who is licensed by the board for advanced practice as a certified nurse practitioner and whose name and pertinent information are entered on the list of certified nurse practitioners maintained by the board,” says the NM Nursing Practice Act. 2. She is currently licensed in another state but working long-term in NM, which I assume is not legal. 3. She is not a nurse or NP, and the Courthouse News Service has it wrong. 4. She is representing herself as an NP, which, if not true, may violate a title act or the practice act above. ---
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-woman-says-anti-abortion-nurse-removed-iud-without-permission-then-lectured-her/481925/20 "2009-01-19T04:26:34Z")
Holy crap, I would be Pissed. IUD’s are expensive and not covered by most insurance, and mine better be good for the whole 5 years, damnit! Plus getting them inserted hurts! I would never personally get an abortion, but I would kill this woman! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wtf-woman-says-anti-abortion-nurse-removed-iud-without-permission-then-lectured-her/481925.md?page=2)