# WV lawmakers suffer stomach illness after drinking raw milk to celebrate legalizing raw milk **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 9, 2016, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wv-lawmakers-suffer-stomach-illness-after-drinking-raw-milk-to-celebrate-legalizing-raw-milk/748437 "2016-03-09T18:24:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wv-lawmakers-suffer-stomach-illness-after-drinking-raw-milk-to-celebrate-legalizing-raw-milk/748437/81 "2016-03-11T21:13:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > [Here is an article](http://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/a-raw-milk-tasting) that describes a blind taste test between four milk samples, two goat and two cow, one each raw and pasteurized. > > It describes clear differences in taste, texture, and color. > > Would you care to re-assess your high doubts? Poor experiment, since they made it Homogenized and Grain fed and Paturized vs Grass fed, unhomogenized and un-Pasteurized. Too many variables. Note that the Pasteurized cow’s milk from Ralph’s grocery store won. Un-homogenized milk is legal and available, and most of the difference is taste is there. here’s anothe test: > **[Raw Milk Taste Test: Does Raw Milk Really Taste Better Than Pasteurized Milk?...](https://www.realmilk.com/raw-milk-taste-test-raw-milk-really-taste-better-pasteurized-milk/)** > > What happens when raw milk is put to the test in a blind raw milk taste test? “He found that, in his personal opinion, he could not tell much of a difference in taste between pasteurized and unpasteurized milk. He could tell a difference in texture – but found raw milk to be thinner, not creamier, than the commercial milk.” I used to work on the family farm during summer vacation, drank milk straight from the cow. (You can squirt it pretty far). ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wv-lawmakers-suffer-stomach-illness-after-drinking-raw-milk-to-celebrate-legalizing-raw-milk/748437/82 "2016-03-11T21:26:23Z")
Seriously, who cares what it tastes like? It’s a question of public health, not palatability. For those of you who think labeled unpasteurized milk should be able to be sold in grocery stores without further restriction, I ask this. Let’s say this happens, and more people sicken and/or die from contaminated milk. Is there some magic number where it _becomes_ a public health issue, rather than a freedom of choice against the nanny-state issue? Or not? If they and perhaps some of their children sicken and die, is that ok because they had the choice not to do so? ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wv-lawmakers-suffer-stomach-illness-after-drinking-raw-milk-to-celebrate-legalizing-raw-milk/748437/83 "2016-03-11T21:38:03Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Does Canada or France have a problem with raw milk cheese? I’m pretty sure you can get raw milk cheese (soft) in Canada and France that you can’t get in the USA. Is there a higher incidence of death related to these raw milk cheeses? Has anybody answered this? I don’t have any strong feelings one way or another but it seems like if other countries allow raw milk without much problem then it should be allowable here. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2016, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wv-lawmakers-suffer-stomach-illness-after-drinking-raw-milk-to-celebrate-legalizing-raw-milk/748437/84 "2016-03-11T22:54:33Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Seriously, who cares what it tastes like? It’s a question of public health, not palatability. > > For those of you who think labeled unpasteurized milk should be able to be sold in grocery stores without further restriction, I ask this. > > Let’s say this happens, and more people sicken and/or die from contaminated milk. Is there some magic number where it _becomes_ a public health issue, rather than a freedom of choice against the nanny-state issue? Or not? If they and perhaps some of their children sicken and die, is that ok because they had the choice not to do so? Why don’t you answer yourself? You do realize that legally-processed, legally-sold meats send dozens of people to hospitals, and a handful to their graves, each year? And there’s no labeling requirement that would have warned those people,\* as there is or would be with raw milk. - At best, if they knew certain things about the meat industry, they might have minimized their risk by avoiding products that _lacked_ certain labels. ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wv-lawmakers-suffer-stomach-illness-after-drinking-raw-milk-to-celebrate-legalizing-raw-milk/748437/85 "2016-03-12T00:19:34Z")
It is definitely proven that smoking and using other tobacco products is bad for your health. The percent of people using raw milk products who get sick and suffer long or short term health problems has got to be minuscule compared to the percent of people who use tobacco products and suffer long or short term heath problems. (No cite, as I could not find any data studying the percent of people who die or get sick from raw milk.) Yet, we do not ban tobacco. Why is that? The reason is because the government has decided that as long as you are over a certain age, you have the right to choose to poison your body with tobacco (and possibly those around you with second hand smoke). So why do we not have (in all states) the right to choose to drink raw milk? We could raise the legal age for raw milk to 18 or 21. Do all of you who think raw milk should be banned also think all tobacco products should be banned? If not, what merits do you think tobacco has to warrant keeping it legal while still banning raw milk? ---
**Author:** ![spamforbrains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wv-lawmakers-suffer-stomach-illness-after-drinking-raw-milk-to-celebrate-legalizing-raw-milk/748437/86 "2016-03-12T00:38:29Z")
> [@](#): > > The problem is that making raw milk commercially available is not just a danger to the people who choose to drink raw milk. how? As far as I can tell, unlike smoking, driving drunk, or refusing to vaccinate your kids, consuming raw milk doesn’t impact anyone’s health but your own. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wv-lawmakers-suffer-stomach-illness-after-drinking-raw-milk-to-celebrate-legalizing-raw-milk/748437/87 "2016-03-12T00:52:16Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I can’t tell from the following linked articles/abstract how well the “blind” milk taste tests were run. But it seems people can’t reliably distinguish between whole and low-fat milk, organic vs. nonorganic milk, and in the last case, the reporter preferred the taste/texture of commercial pasteurized milk to raw milk. > > [Consumer taste tests and milk preference in low-income, urban supermarkets - PubMed](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25225871) > [Organic Milk vs. Regular Milk: Which Tastes Better? | HuffPost Life](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/26/milk-taste-test_n_1213895.html) > [Putting raw milk to the test](http://www.jconline.com/story/life/2014/09/15/putting-raw-milk-test/15676373/) > > For a lot of raw milk enthusiasts who swear about taste or health benefits, they appear to have fallen for another bovine product extruded from a different orifice. Let’s first be clear that if you were to show that a blind taste test had the vast majority of tasters picking the commercial pasteurized milk as tasting better, it would prove my point: that there is a difference in taste. Agreed? Now, which are you arguing – that there is no taste difference or that most people prefer the taste of commercial milk? > [@Jackmannii](#): > > …it has been well-documented that wine and spirits lovers are notoriously incapable of reliably distinguishing between _haute_ labels and much cheaper stuff. Has it? Cite? Eight years ago, I posted this thread, in which I relate being served a blended scotch out of a single malt bottle and being immediately able to tell the difference. I collect single malt scotch. I have held tasting parties. I admit I probably couldn’t reliably distinguish between, say, Auchentoshan (Bourbon Oak) and Auchentoshan (American Oak), because I don’t taste either enough to be familiar with them. But I assure you I can taste, every single time, the difference between Glenfiddich and Cutty Sark. And the difference between raw milk and commercial milk. I have never heard or read any account that suggests they taste the same. Even the accounts you offer agree they taste different. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wv-lawmakers-suffer-stomach-illness-after-drinking-raw-milk-to-celebrate-legalizing-raw-milk/748437/88 "2016-03-12T00:53:58Z")
> [@spamforbrains](#): > > how? As far as I can tell, unlike smoking, driving drunk, or refusing to vaccinate your kids, consuming raw milk doesn’t impact anyone’s health but your own. Are you reading this thread? Like the herd immunity function of mandatory universal vaccination, barring raw milk helps prevent certain afflictions from entering the population. It also prevents the accidental consumption of raw milk by vulnerable individuals. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wv-lawmakers-suffer-stomach-illness-after-drinking-raw-milk-to-celebrate-legalizing-raw-milk/748437/89 "2016-03-12T01:01:11Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Poor experiment, since they made it Homogenized and Grain fed and Paturized vs Grass fed, unhomogenized and un-Pasteurized. Too many variables. Note that the Pasteurized cow’s milk from Ralph’s grocery store won. Which suggests that there was a taste difference. > [@](#): > > He could tell a difference in texture – but found raw milk to be thinner, not creamier, than the commercial milk." I agree. It’s thinner, with hay or floral undertones, and not nearly as sweet as commercial milk. I suspect the majority of tasters would prefer commercial milk. But then, I like Limburger cheese, which most people treat with revulsion. I like anchovies, which means my wife makes me order my own pizza. So I don’t tend to track with the majority’s taste palate. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wv-lawmakers-suffer-stomach-illness-after-drinking-raw-milk-to-celebrate-legalizing-raw-milk/748437/90 "2016-03-12T01:03:23Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Are you reading this thread? Like the herd immunity function of mandatory universal vaccination, barring raw milk helps prevent certain afflictions from entering the population. It also prevents the accidental consumption of raw milk by vulnerable individuals. I don’t quite understand the “herd immunity,” argument. Can you explain? I agree with the claim that limiting raw milk sales makes it much less likely that vulnerable individuals accidentally consume it. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wv-lawmakers-suffer-stomach-illness-after-drinking-raw-milk-to-celebrate-legalizing-raw-milk/748437/91 "2016-03-12T01:04:09Z")
Anchovies … Limburger … Thank you for making me drool when I’m at least 45 minutes away from dinner. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wv-lawmakers-suffer-stomach-illness-after-drinking-raw-milk-to-celebrate-legalizing-raw-milk/748437/92 "2016-03-12T01:07:24Z")
Our culture has only drank pasteurized milk for a couple generations. Especially in rural areas. People had milk cows on their farms and thought nothing of filling a milk bucket for the family breakfast. My dad grew up drinking fresh milk straight from the cow. His biggest complaint was it was skim milk. Grandmother always sold the cream or made butter that they sold. I guess its risky for adults to switch from pasteurized to raw milk. Our stomachs aren’t prepared for that. Its different if someone grew up drinking only raw milk. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wv-lawmakers-suffer-stomach-illness-after-drinking-raw-milk-to-celebrate-legalizing-raw-milk/748437/93 "2016-03-12T01:10:05Z")
Very few people live in farms now. They really aren’t significant for public health questions. And before milk pasteurization was mandated there was a not insignificant harm. ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wv-lawmakers-suffer-stomach-illness-after-drinking-raw-milk-to-celebrate-legalizing-raw-milk/748437/94 "2016-03-12T01:15:26Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Are you reading this thread? Like the herd immunity function of mandatory universal vaccination, barring raw milk helps prevent certain afflictions from entering the population. It also prevents the accidental consumption of raw milk by vulnerable individuals. I would also like further explanation about herd immunity with regard to raw or pasteurized milk. I understand how it works with vaccines and illnesses that are contagious, but I do not understand how that would apply to possible food-borne illnesses. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wv-lawmakers-suffer-stomach-illness-after-drinking-raw-milk-to-celebrate-legalizing-raw-milk/748437/95 "2016-03-12T01:16:24Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Anchovies … Limburger … Thank you for making me drool when I’m at least 45 minutes away from dinner. Limburger, dark rye bread, lightly buttered, sliced raw onions, dark mustard. Yummmmmmmm… And this is a Friday of Lent. I can have that, if I can talk my wife into it. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wv-lawmakers-suffer-stomach-illness-after-drinking-raw-milk-to-celebrate-legalizing-raw-milk/748437/96 "2016-03-12T01:27:36Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Our culture has only drank pasteurized milk for a couple generations. Especially in rural areas. People had milk cows on their farms and thought nothing of filling a milk bucket for the family breakfast. > > My dad grew up drinking fresh milk straight from the cow. His biggest complaint was it was skim milk. Grandmother always sold the cream or made butter that they sold. > > I guess its risky for adults to switch from pasteurized to raw milk. Our stomachs aren’t prepared for that. Its different if someone grew up drinking only raw milk. No, sorry. Nobody gets used to listeria, E. coli, salmonella or tuberculosis. Healthy adults don’t usually get sick from these things, but they are can be very serious for children, pregnant women, the elderly and those with compromised immune systems. Have you even seen child mortality rates from the past? The spread of pasteurization was an enormous boon to people who want to survive to adulthood. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wv-lawmakers-suffer-stomach-illness-after-drinking-raw-milk-to-celebrate-legalizing-raw-milk/748437/97 "2016-03-12T01:50:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Limburger, dark rye bread, lightly buttered, sliced raw onions, dark mustard. > > Yummmmmmmm… > > And this is a Friday of Lent. I can have that, if I can talk my wife into it. Oh god. You and I have little in common but we would probably enjoy eating together considering our mouths would be constantly stuffed with food. ---
**Author:** ![spamforbrains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wv-lawmakers-suffer-stomach-illness-after-drinking-raw-milk-to-celebrate-legalizing-raw-milk/748437/98 "2016-03-12T02:11:24Z")
> [@](#): > > barring raw milk helps prevent certain afflictions from entering the population. what afflictions? it just seems to cause food poisoning in people who consume it. Nothing that’s really contagious between people who wash their hands regularly. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wv-lawmakers-suffer-stomach-illness-after-drinking-raw-milk-to-celebrate-legalizing-raw-milk/748437/99 "2016-03-12T02:52:33Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Are you reading this thread? Like the herd immunity function of mandatory universal vaccination, barring raw milk helps prevent certain afflictions from entering the population. It also prevents the accidental consumption of raw milk by vulnerable individuals. Well then, we should get rid of peanuts; actually, get rid of all tree nuts so no one accidentally gets sick. Some people are allergic to shellfish so get rid of those, too. In rare cases soy can cause anaphylaxis so we’ll have to ban that. Too bad for vegans. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2016, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wv-lawmakers-suffer-stomach-illness-after-drinking-raw-milk-to-celebrate-legalizing-raw-milk/748437/100 "2016-03-12T02:53:15Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Our culture has only drank pasteurized milk for a couple generations. Especially in rural areas. People had milk cows on their farms and thought nothing of filling a milk bucket for the family breakfast. > > My dad grew up drinking fresh milk straight from the cow. His biggest complaint was it was skim milk. Grandmother always sold the cream or made butter that they sold. > > I guess its risky for adults to switch from pasteurized to raw milk. Our stomachs aren’t prepared for that. Its different if someone grew up drinking only raw milk. Sure, and \*if \*you know your cow, and \*if \*you know her milk hasnt been mixed with that of 100’s of other cows, it’s pretty damn safe. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wv-lawmakers-suffer-stomach-illness-after-drinking-raw-milk-to-celebrate-legalizing-raw-milk/748437.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wv-lawmakers-suffer-stomach-illness-after-drinking-raw-milk-to-celebrate-legalizing-raw-milk/748437.md?page=6)