# WW I, Korea, WW II and Israel; Heads You Win Should Not be Tails I Lose **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 8, 2018, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww-i-korea-ww-ii-and-israel-heads-you-win-should-not-be-tails-i-lose/806094 "2018-01-08T01:17:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![JBGUSA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/258eb7/32.png) [@JBGUSA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBGUSA)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww-i-korea-ww-ii-and-israel-heads-you-win-should-not-be-tails-i-lose/806094/41 "2018-01-08T19:27:29Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > If one state is intolerable, and two states are intolerable, what exactly should the world being calling on Israel to do? You can’t expect other people to endorse an endless, oppressive, military occupation/creeping annexation. If the US still occupied a chunk of Germany, do you imagine that there’d be no criticism over it? > Why aren’t the Palestinians? They have to live as stateless people under occupation forever, because other people of their ethnic group went to war with Israel? The other Arab countries should do what Germans did with the expelled Sudeten Germans from Czechoslovakia. And the Israelis did with the Jews expelled from Yemen, Egypt, Libya, and Iraq where they’ve been living since the Babylonians destroyed the First Temple. Or the Israelis did with the Falashas of Ethiopia. The Arabs are keeping them in camps, in misery. The Arab governments very rarely do anything for their people. And while Iran isn’t Arab it’s similar. Why can’t the people afford a dozen eggs when the U.S. gave back $116 billion dollars plus ransom for captured Navy personnel. > [@Human\_Action](#): > > I’m also right that it wasn’t “returned”. It’s still controlled by Israel. It’s not Israel’s fault that they started fighting as soon as it was liberated. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww-i-korea-ww-ii-and-israel-heads-you-win-should-not-be-tails-i-lose/806094/42 "2018-01-08T19:28:30Z")
> [@Mk\_VII](#): > > That would have meant using the Bomb (which some generals were quite keen to do). Which would have brought the Soviets overtly in, which would have meant another general European war. The nuclear capable soviets who were already supplying the skilled air support to the PRC for the Korean conflict. And a Soviet regime that was still geared for the war and under the ever paranoid Stalin. This only to engage in the fantasy of the game style total victory result. ---
**Author:** ![JBGUSA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/258eb7/32.png) [@JBGUSA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBGUSA)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww-i-korea-ww-ii-and-israel-heads-you-win-should-not-be-tails-i-lose/806094/43 "2018-01-08T19:31:30Z")
> [@Mk\_VII](#): > > That would have meant using the Bomb (which some generals were quite keen to do). Which would have brought the Soviets overtly in, which would have meant another general European war. You omitted the part of my quote with a non-nuclear option: > [@JBGUSA](#): > > We should have insisted on their being disarmed the way Japan was at the end of that war. The Tokyo and Dresden firebombing… should have been object lessons. Yes, I omitted the two nuclear attacks. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww-i-korea-ww-ii-and-israel-heads-you-win-should-not-be-tails-i-lose/806094/44 "2018-01-08T19:41:36Z")
> [@JBGUSA](#): > > The Arabs are keeping them in camps, in misery. Oh we’re in an alternative timelines and in 1975… Of course in fact in this world and timeline the Palestinians in the Jordan - 2.1 millions, who represent the majority of the refugees are full citizens (unless they have rejected the citizenship for political reasons). The Lebanon, the 300-400 thousand, it is essentially the Maronite catholic christian factions (who claim not to be arabe but phoenician…) who consistently block a Palestinian citizenship idea as destablizing the citizenship balance between the ethnic-religious groups. In any case the comment shows as much of the knowledge of the history or the situation as the OP about the Berlin case or the historical non knowledge in effect. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww-i-korea-ww-ii-and-israel-heads-you-win-should-not-be-tails-i-lose/806094/45 "2018-01-08T19:54:33Z")
> [@JBGUSA](#): > > That was when Macarthur was firedd. We could have proceeded with Israel-like overwhelming strength. North Korea and China could not fight the full force of the U.S. armed forces. They didn’t have a navy or air force to speak of. In the nature of full disclosure my father was in the Navy in Korea. > > We should have insisted on their being disarmed the way Japan was at the end of that war. They Tokyo and Dresden firebombing, Hiroshima and Nagasaki should have been object lessons. You’re right. We should have sent Superman in to finish the war. Oh wait, Superman’s a fictional character. We had to fight in the real world. Did you miss the part where I pointed out how we fought against the Chinese and North Koreans for two years without advancing? What part of that fits in with your belief that we could dictate terms to the Chinese or North Korean governments? How exactly were we supposed to be able to defeat and occupy China when we weren’t able to even defeat and occupy North Korea? Or were we supposed to send in more troops? Where were those troops coming from? Should we have pulled forces out of Europe to send them to Korea? Why do you think Stalin wanted a war in Korea? The reality was we sent all the troops to Korea that we could afford to send there. The real generals and the real politicians, as opposed to the ones sitting in armchairs fifty years later, knew that keeping the Soviets out of Western Europe and the Middle East was more important than fighting a war in Korea. As for Israel, did the Israeli army take Cairo? Damascus? Amman? Riyadh? Baghdad? Tehran? Maybe you need to realize the Israeli army is not as overwhelming as you imagine it is. The Israelis won battles and then they were smart enough to stop when they reached their limits. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww-i-korea-ww-ii-and-israel-heads-you-win-should-not-be-tails-i-lose/806094/46 "2018-01-08T20:00:36Z")
Oh no I think he imagines that you should have started the firebombing and the nuking of the Chinese cities He wrote after all just above > [@](#): > > They Tokyo and Dresden firebombing, Hiroshima and Nagasaki should have been object lessons. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww-i-korea-ww-ii-and-israel-heads-you-win-should-not-be-tails-i-lose/806094/47 "2018-01-08T20:20:07Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Also I don’t know if north vietnam were the aggressors. They were fighting a multi decade war against French & US imperialists. Yeah plus the US was quite clearly in the moral wrong there, supporting the powers-that-used-to-be in cancelling national elections (that had been agreed upon by all parties when the French finally fucked off) when it looked like the communists would win them by a landslide. What else were the Vietnamese people supposed to do but start some shit ? Were they supposed to shrug and go “oh well, we’ll just keep the corrupt stooges almost openly in the pocket of foreign powers, then” ? ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww-i-korea-ww-ii-and-israel-heads-you-win-should-not-be-tails-i-lose/806094/48 "2018-01-08T20:21:35Z")
The corrupt christian minority elite specifically sponsored by the French to be very specific, since the religious particularism was important. if the americans had not been so easily duped by the waiving of the anti commies flag, it would have been easy to see that the risk was not really the communists winning but the national feeling winning ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww-i-korea-ww-ii-and-israel-heads-you-win-should-not-be-tails-i-lose/806094/49 "2018-01-08T20:22:22Z")
so this is another "the arabs lost against Israel in the 60s and 70s so the Palestinians should suck it up and get out because they aint special " threads that the op delights in with “historical backup” on why he’s right this time… ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww-i-korea-ww-ii-and-israel-heads-you-win-should-not-be-tails-i-lose/806094/50 "2018-01-08T20:39:51Z")
Yes. and crossposted across the internet ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww-i-korea-ww-ii-and-israel-heads-you-win-should-not-be-tails-i-lose/806094/51 "2018-01-08T20:47:05Z")
> [@JBGUSA](#): > > \*\*Korea (armistice) \*\* – Probably the strongest case. Korea was historically under the sway of either Japan or China [(source)](http://www.localhistories.org/korea.html). In or about 1910 Japan seized control. When WW II ended Korea was partitioned between the northern half, occupied by the USSR and the southern half, occupied by the U.S. There was, to my understanding, little reason for this generosity to the U.S.S.R. since they took astonishingly little part in the defeat of Japan in the war. In Europe, at least a colorable argument could be made that they earned a share of the spoils, and effective control of Eastern Europe. When NK invaded in 1950 there was little reason for not conquering and holding NK, reuniting it under South Korea’s military dictatorship. > > Since then, NK has clearly not found the status quo acceptable. They are now a nuclear power, leaving the West with little choice but surrender or a full-scale war before NK poses a mortal threat to the civilized world. War is as was said politics continued by other means, and politics as they say is the art of the possible. And I don’t think that combination of cliches is any more simplistic than your OP with due respect. 🙂 The reason for the ‘generosity’ of allowing the Soviets to accept Japanese surrender in 1945 above the 38th parallel in Korea was pretty simple. The Soviets’ indeed very limited, in time, participation the war against Japan from August 9th included invading Japanese occupied Korea. IOW the Soviet Army was already well inside North Korea by the time of the armistice August 15 and within an easy drive of the bottom of Korea before US ground forces 100’s of miles away on Okinawa at the nearest could be shipped there. In general the US could have played a more aggressive game of brinkmanship with the Soviets early after, and even during, WWII. There’s at least a kernel of a valid point there about a period of US WWII naivety about the Soviets. OTOH the US public wanted an end to the war, not a new war with the Soviets. So there was a real limit. It can debated if US leadership could have done more within that limit. But as far as Korea, let’s remember the US (the Truman admin) was ambiguous and undecided how it viewed Korea in terms of US interests. Korea was a vassal state of the Qing dynasty for a couple of centuries before the 19th (not exactly ‘always’ a vassal or China or Japan) then a football among different powers at the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th. But one of them was also Russia, prior to Russia’s defeat in the 1904-5 war by Japan. Which is another theme of popular history blame over the Korean War: that public ambiguity by the Truman admin about the frontier of US defense in the Pacific, an infamous map leaving out South Korea, was a factor in encouraging Stalin and Mao to back Kim Il Sung’s plan for reunification by force. Anyway when after the defeat of the North Korean invasion and the Chinese intervention, there was a serious additional trade off to be made pushing an actively participating _China_ out of NK as compared to defeating the NK’s. Another poster stated it as if the UN force could not have pushed the Chinese further north. That’s not so. The CPV/KPA force in mid 1951 was in a bad way after the failure of its spring offensives with very heavy losses. It could at least in the short term in fact have been pushed further north perhaps to the narrowest part of NK straight across around Wonsan, or the old defense line from the Yalu’s mouth to Wonsan (the so called 1000-ri long fort, as opposed to the 10,000-ri long fort, aka Great Wall of China). The UN command decided not to. The question was whether to continue defending a further north defense line against repeated Chinese attempts retake it if that lasted for years. And what would have been the point? Again given the northern Yalu/Tumen border of NK wasn’t economically defensible by conventional means. And as mentioned the military force to sustain a longer or bigger war would have to come from a weakening of US/Allied defense somewhere else in the world, or putting the US economy and society on more of an all out war footing. But that was an even more unpopular prospect by mid Korean War than it had been by 1945. And as to looking back to 1945-53 in terms of the current NK problem, nobody could look enough moves ahead to foreseeing a rogue regime in NK operating with sort of acquiescence but not really alliance with a nominally Communist rising China no longer exactly allied with a non-Communist declining Russia. Or to put it another way, the current situation with NK wouldn’t exist either if the US had just ceded Korea as a whole to the Soviet sphere in 1945, too many moves ago to say how that would have turned out by now. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww-i-korea-ww-ii-and-israel-heads-you-win-should-not-be-tails-i-lose/806094/52 "2018-01-08T20:53:03Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Yeah plus the US was quite clearly in the moral wrong there, supporting the powers-that-used-to-be in cancelling national elections (that had been agreed upon by all parties when the French finally fucked off) when it looked like the communists would win them by a landslide. > > What else were the Vietnamese people supposed to do but start some shit ? Were they supposed to shrug and go “oh well, we’ll just keep the corrupt stooges almost openly in the pocket of foreign powers, then” ? I wouldn’t say the French fucked off as much as got run off. Poor Mr. Michelin, lost so many rubber plantations when that happened. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww-i-korea-ww-ii-and-israel-heads-you-win-should-not-be-tails-i-lose/806094/53 "2018-01-08T21:00:38Z")
See, what you guys don’t understand is that when red-Blooded Americans take a licking, they regroup and rearm and come back and kick ass. But when lily-livered yellow-bellied Foreigners take a licking, they knuckle under and hand over their wives and daughters and treasuries, and fuck off never to be heard from again. This is known. So when we win a war, we just win it, all it takes is overwhelming strength and power. And then we take the spoils of war, and everyone lives happily ever after. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww-i-korea-ww-ii-and-israel-heads-you-win-should-not-be-tails-i-lose/806094/54 "2018-01-08T21:32:44Z")
After WWI the Central Powers weren’t exactly “left to their own devices”, but it could be argued that occupation of no more than small slices of enemy territory (and failure to march into Berlin) helped the bogus argument that Germany didn’t really lose the war militarily but was “stabbed in the back” by politicians, slackers, Jews etc. - a viewpoint that was exploited to create the conditions for WWII. > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > WW1 if anything was a situation where too much was demanded from the losing party, which helped cause WW2. At least as much was demanded of France by Prussia after its victory in 1870 (heavy reparations intended to cripple it long-term, loss of Alsace-Lorraine). France paid off the reparations, reorganized and found a way to regain the international stage without trying to take over and exterminate its neighbors. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww-i-korea-ww-ii-and-israel-heads-you-win-should-not-be-tails-i-lose/806094/55 "2018-01-08T21:50:57Z")
> [@JBGUSA](#): > > **And while Iran isn’t Arab it’s similar.** Why can’t the people afford a dozen eggs when the U.S. gave back $116 billion dollars plus ransom for captured Navy personnel… (bolding mine) Oh really. I was born in Iran and find this questionable. We’re not Arab but “similar”. I’d love to hear how we’re similar and suspect Ramira would find such a suggestion about us to be questionable as well. To be blunt, I won’t say your assertion is completely asinine but IMHO the French, Spanish, and Italians have more in common than the Arabs and the Iranians. As for the rest, no it wasn’t “ransom” but money legally owed. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww-i-korea-ww-ii-and-israel-heads-you-win-should-not-be-tails-i-lose/806094/56 "2018-01-08T21:58:41Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > …At least as much was demanded of France by Prussia after its victory in 1870 (heavy reparations intended to cripple it long-term, loss of Alsace-Lorraine). France paid off the reparations, reorganized and found a way to regain the international stage without trying to take over and exterminate its neighbors. No, France opted instead for the exploitation of my cousins and others of the family, to fund the plotting new wars against the Germans. So much better, externalizing the resource extraction and killing of the brown peoples to fund the recycling of the warfare the model of the extraction of hte punitive reparations is not something that was the successful action in 1871, it was part of the escalating cycle of the violent faiure that the europeans made the world suffer from as part of their senseless cycle of wars. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > (bolding mine) > > I’d love to hear how we’re similar and suspect Ramira would find such a suggestion about us to be questionable as well. Kha, but I am arabephone, not arab by blood. And even more dissimilar, but all the untermenschen they are the same, to be firebombed or nuked if they get in the way. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2018, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww-i-korea-ww-ii-and-israel-heads-you-win-should-not-be-tails-i-lose/806094/57 "2018-01-08T22:07:58Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Here’s the reality; we tried to occupy North Korea and we were unable to do it. When that happens, the best thing to do is admit you can’t have everything you want in life and end the war with what you can actually get. Only fools keep fighting a war they can’t win. And only evil men send soldiers off to die in an unwinnable war rather than admit they can’t win. > [@JBGUSA](#): > > We should have insisted on their being disarmed the way Japan was at the end of that war. They Tokyo and Dresden firebombing, Hiroshima and Nagasaki should have been object lessons. As **Little Nemo** correctly pointed out, the U.S. and allied forces _did_ [almost completely overrun North Korea](https://www.awm.gov.au/visit/exhibitions/korea/operations/map). It’s also worth pointing out that [U.S. air power utterly devastated North Korea in the course of the war:](http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/how-american-air-power-destroyed-north-korea-21881) > [@USAF General Curtis LeMay](#): > > [the Strategic Air Command] burned down just about every city in North and South Korea both…over a period of three years or so, we killed off…20 percent of the population. > [@(Future U.S. Secretary of State) Dean Rusk](#): > > [the United States bombed] Everything that moved in North Korea, every brick standing on top of another. ---
**Author:** ![JBGUSA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/258eb7/32.png) [@JBGUSA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBGUSA)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww-i-korea-ww-ii-and-israel-heads-you-win-should-not-be-tails-i-lose/806094/58 "2018-01-09T02:19:34Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > Oh we’re in an alternative timelines and in 1975… > > Of course in fact in this world and timeline the Palestinians in the Jordan - 2.1 millions, who represent the majority of the refugees are full citizens (unless they have rejected the citizenship for political reasons). > > The Lebanon, the 300-400 thousand, it is essentially the Maronite catholic christian factions (who claim not to be arabe but phoenician…) who consistently block a Palestinian citizenship idea as destablizing the citizenship balance between the ethnic-religious groups. > > In any case the comment shows as much of the knowledge of the history or the situation as the OP about the Berlin case or the historical non knowledge in effect. I am sick and tired of your insults. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You’re right. We should have sent Superman in to finish the war. > > Oh wait, Superman’s a fictional character. We had to fight in the real world. > > Did you miss the part where I pointed out how we fought against the Chinese and North Koreans for two years without advancing? What part of that fits in with your belief that we could dictate terms to the Chinese or North Korean governments? How exactly were we supposed to be able to defeat and occupy China when we weren’t able to even defeat and occupy North Korea? Were we fighting with one, or two, hands tied behind our back? Or were we supposed to send in more troops? Where were those troops coming from? Should we have pulled forces out of Europe to send them to Korea? Why do you think Stalin wanted a war in Korea? The reality was we sent all the troops to Korea that we could afford to send there. The real generals and the real politicians, as opposed to the ones sitting in armchairs fifty years later, knew that keeping the Soviets out of Western Europe and the Middle East was more important than fighting a war in Korea. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > As for Israel, did the Israeli army take Cairo? Damascus? Amman? Riyadh? Baghdad? Tehran? Maybe you need to realize the Israeli army is not as overwhelming as you imagine it is. The Israelis won battles and then they were smart enough to stop when they reached their limits. Or was Israel stopped by “diplomatic pressure,” i.e. the U.S.? Surely Israel could have received recognition as the price of stopping. ---
**Author:** ![JBGUSA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/258eb7/32.png) [@JBGUSA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBGUSA)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww-i-korea-ww-ii-and-israel-heads-you-win-should-not-be-tails-i-lose/806094/59 "2018-01-09T02:23:56Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > (bolding mine) > As for the rest, no it wasn’t “ransom” but money legally owed. Has the money been used to benefit the people, or only for corruption, war and terror? Why not hold Iran to the same standards to which you want to hold Israel? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww-i-korea-ww-ii-and-israel-heads-you-win-should-not-be-tails-i-lose/806094/60 "2018-01-09T03:26:36Z")
> [@JBGUSA](#): > > Has the money been used to benefit the people, or only for corruption, war and terror? **Why not hold Iran to the same standards to which you want to hold Israel?** Exactly what unfair standards do I hold Israel to. Do tell and be as specific as you can. As for if I’m a more critical of Israel than I am of Iran. Yes, for the same reason I am of Turkey. They’re both western democracies and so I hold them to higher standards. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww-i-korea-ww-ii-and-israel-heads-you-win-should-not-be-tails-i-lose/806094.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww-i-korea-ww-ii-and-israel-heads-you-win-should-not-be-tails-i-lose/806094.md?page=4)