# WW2 Dornier bomber recovered and intact. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 10, 2013, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww2-dornier-bomber-recovered-and-intact/660670 "2013-06-10T23:04:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww2-dornier-bomber-recovered-and-intact/660670/1 "2013-06-10T23:04:38Z")
Exciting photos > **[Back from the deep: £600,000 rescue operation lifts German bomber from the...](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2339105/Back-deep--600-000-rescue-operation-lifts-German-bomber-Channel-bed.html)** > > The retrieval of the last surviving Dornier Do 17 from the Goodwin Sands off the coast of Kent is the biggest recovery of its kind in British waters. > [@](#): > > The plane, which is said to be in ‘remarkable condition’, was one of the Luftwaffe’s ‘flying pencil’ bombers, named for their narrow fuselage. Excitingly for military aviation historians, the aircraft is incredibly well-preserved and the wings and engines are intact. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww2-dornier-bomber-recovered-and-intact/660670/2 "2013-06-11T00:18:04Z")
The Lady in the Water will fly again! _looks at pics_ Well, maybe not. Still an amazing piece of history though. Wonder how many other treasures lie at the bottom of the English Channel and North Sea from the period? Incidentally a morbid question, what happened to the crew? By all reports two of them were KIA - wouldn’t it be a War Grave if there were human remains on board? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww2-dornier-bomber-recovered-and-intact/660670/3 "2013-06-11T00:19:55Z")
Very cool. “Remarkable condition” should be prefaced by the word “relatively” though. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww2-dornier-bomber-recovered-and-intact/660670/4 "2013-06-11T00:44:33Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > Very cool. “Remarkable condition” should be prefaced by the word “relatively” though. This. I guess it really is in “remarkable condition” after more than 70 years . . . just not what I expected. Actually I’m more impressed by the imaging that led to its discovery. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww2-dornier-bomber-recovered-and-intact/660670/5 "2013-06-11T01:44:35Z")
The imaging shows a perfectly straight pencil think fuselage. I wonder if they damaged the plane raising it? That whole back section is a crumpled mess now. > [@panache45](#): > > This. I guess it really is in “remarkable condition” after more than 70 years . . . just not what I expected. Actually I’m more impressed by the imaging that led to its discovery. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww2-dornier-bomber-recovered-and-intact/660670/6 "2013-06-11T03:43:02Z")
Wow! A Defiant shot something down without getting shot down itself! 😉 Not so fast: > [@Wikipedia](#): > > The identity of the Defiant that shot down the Dornier is unknown – it may have been one of three 264 Squadron aircraft that was shot down soon after in a battle with Bf 109 fighter escorts of the German fighter wing JG 3. Poor bastards. ☹ Which should probably be in a different thread titled, “What were they thinking?” ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww2-dornier-bomber-recovered-and-intact/660670/7 "2013-06-11T12:12:31Z")
Needs work. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2013, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww2-dornier-bomber-recovered-and-intact/660670/8 "2013-06-11T13:10:28Z")
“Intact”? Right. It’s a complete mess. Any attempt at restoring it will end up with a [ship of Theseus](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus) situation. Almost all of the metal you see is going to be too thin, cracked, corroded to be structurally sound. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww2-dornier-bomber-recovered-and-intact/660670/9 "2013-06-12T03:54:57Z")
That is “remarkable condition”??? I can’t even begin to guess what “poor condition” is. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww2-dornier-bomber-recovered-and-intact/660670/10 "2013-06-12T04:06:02Z")
I guess “remarkably intact” is a way of saying “Pretty much in one piece on the ocean floor”. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww2-dornier-bomber-recovered-and-intact/660670/11 "2013-06-12T04:40:21Z")
Why is it rusty? Or is that rust? Did the Germans use steel skins? Shops should rust; aluminum should simply form a coat of (white) oxide. Or am I losing it again? ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww2-dornier-bomber-recovered-and-intact/660670/12 "2013-06-12T18:19:45Z")
Salt water corrodes a lot stuff due to electrochemical reaction. This is different from standard oxidation. Aluminum oxide is quite stable (which is why smelting aluminum is so tricky), but it will leech off the base material, forming another layer, which is removed, etc. Several decades in salt water and thin material to begin with will do it. Oceanic life forms also contribute, especially bacterial slime mats which can be acidic. Add in cracks in the metal from the initial crash which allow all this the more easily penetrate into the metal and there you go. (The Titanic was fairly stable until people started visiting it. This stirred up the muck around it and now steel eating cruft is breaking it down in years what decades didn’t do. Microbes and metal are an interesting combo.) ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww2-dornier-bomber-recovered-and-intact/660670/13 "2013-06-12T19:00:06Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > (The Titanic was fairly stable until people started visiting it. This stirred up the muck around it and now steel eating cruft is breaking it down in years what decades didn’t do. Microbes and metal are an interesting combo.) Dr. Robert Ballard has said in interviews and articles that he pretty much regrets finding it. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww2-dornier-bomber-recovered-and-intact/660670/14 "2013-06-12T22:29:47Z")
I’ve seen them put recovered objects in a saline tank to prevent further rust. Deep Sea Detectives visited a lab preserving artifacts from Blackbeard’s ship. IIRC they run a low current through the water. It takes months to stabilize the artifact. They are doing something similar with the Civil War sub,U.S.S. Monitor. It’s in a tank getting stabilized. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww2-dornier-bomber-recovered-and-intact/660670/15 "2013-06-14T07:59:22Z")
Hi Res pictures of the recovered Dornier. Some are really good closeups. > **[In pictures: German Dornier bomber raised from English Channel](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22848638)** > > The remains of a German bomber are salvaged from the English Channel 70 years after historians believe it was shot down. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww2-dornier-bomber-recovered-and-intact/660670/16 "2013-06-14T14:48:30Z")
Planes are made from aluminum and shouldn’t rust. I wonder how much of that brown on the plane is just mud and barnacles? Maybe it will come off after a good cleaning? The metal looks pretty intact in those hi res pictures. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww2-dornier-bomber-recovered-and-intact/660670/17 "2013-06-14T15:21:40Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > They are doing something similar with the Civil War sub,U.S.S. Monitor. It’s in a tank getting stabilized. Monitor was a Union class of ironclads. [The Monitor](http://www.marinersmuseum.org/uss-monitor-center/uss-monitor-center) was lost at sea while under tow. Are you thinking of the [CSS Hunley?](http://www.hunley.org/) ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww2-dornier-bomber-recovered-and-intact/660670/18 "2013-06-14T15:39:50Z")
Yeah the Hunley. I got my subs mixed up. Thanks. Some of the pics show the tank and the cathodic protection anode they used to stabilize the metal. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww2-dornier-bomber-recovered-and-intact/660670/19 "2013-06-14T17:28:51Z")
I agree that restoring this thing will cost a fortune. So my question is: are there plenty of DO-88s around? I mean, its a relic of a long-ago war (now some 3 generations behind us). Does the world really need another DO-88? OH, and BTW, the Luftwaffe crews didn’t fear the RAF as much as they feared their DO-88’s-they were easy to catch fire, hard to escape, and poorly defensively armed. ---
**Author:** ![Antonius\_Block](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Antonius\_Block](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antonius_Block)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2013, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww2-dornier-bomber-recovered-and-intact/660670/20 "2013-06-14T18:51:13Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > So my question is: are there plenty of DO-88s around? I think you may be conflating the [Junkers JU-88](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_88) --of which there are [a few survivors](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_88#Survivors) (two complete, and a few near-complete) – and the [Dornier DO-17](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dornier_Do_17), of which the recently-raised plane is [the **only** known survivor](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dornier_Do_17#Dornier_Do_17Z_Werknummer_1160) (although there is apparently a Do-215 variant underwater in the Netherlands). I have never heard of the **DO-88** to which you refer. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww2-dornier-bomber-recovered-and-intact/660670.md?page=2)