# WW2 weapons used in Ukraine **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [April 4, 2022, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww2-weapons-used-in-ukraine/962268 "2022-04-04T18:40:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2022, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww2-weapons-used-in-ukraine/962268/21 "2022-04-08T16:01:57Z")
This looks like a close match to @mordecaiB 's points, but not sure it’s the same source he got the numbers from: > **[Killer Instinct; How Many Soldiers Actually Fired Their Weapons in Past Wars...](https://www.faac.com/blog/2018/01/28/killer-instinct-how-many-soldiers-actually-fired-their-weapons-in-past-wars-how-has-simulation-other-training-helped/)** > > During World War II it was estimated that 45,000 rounds of small arms ammunition was fired to kill one enemy soldier. In Vietnam the American military establishment consumed an estimated 50,000 rounds of ammunition for every enemy killed. Small arms... In terms of the numbers you’ve mentioned @SenorBeef , that sounds more like this one: > **[If You Miss the First Time, Try Firing Another 300,000 Rounds | Robert Higgs](https://www.independent.org/news/article.asp?id=2003#:~:text=In%20World%20War%20II%2C%20U.S.,on%20earth%20at%20that%20time)** > > According to > the educated guess of military researcher John Pike, the director of GlobalSecurity.org, U.S. forces have expended > at least 250,000 small-caliber bullets for every insurgent killed > in the present wars. That's a lot of... Which is probably a bit misleading, in that it compares total rounds produced vs kills, which leaves out training, stockpiles, ‘slippage’, destroyed or lost in shipment, etc. A useful quote from the second article - > For the four fiscal years 2002-2005, the military’s small-arms ammunition “requirements” totaled nearly 5.6 billion rounds. With approximately 3.6 billion being added during the next two years, the total for fiscal years 2002-2007 comes to about 9.2 billion rounds. If we assume that U.S. forces in Afghanistan and Iraq have killed 50,000 people with small-arms fire (a high estimate, I suspect), then they have needed, for training plus actual fighting, 184,000 bullets per person killed. If they have killed only 30,000 in this way, then the figure rises to almost 307,000 bullets per person shot dead, which is roughly equal to the estimate Pike ventured two years ago before he decided to “round that down to 250,000 so that we are underestimating.” So it depends upon how you count. And it also doesn’t include the fact that many of the small arms calibers are ALSO used in vehicle mounted anti-personnel weapons specifically for suppressing fire, rather than soldiers using direct fire. So, yeah, a complicated subject. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2022, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww2-weapons-used-in-ukraine/962268/22 "2022-04-08T17:06:25Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Do you have a source for those numbers? I’ve actually read that it’s quite a lot higher - around 250,000 in WW2 and around 600,000 in Vietnam. Looks like that was covered, thanks to @ParallelLines. 👍 Either way, that’s a lot of bullets expended that end up being part of the landscape. I guess we’re lucky nobody ever invented bullets that were meant to explode on impact. Just think of all the places in the world that are still finding unexploded bombs or land mines and add all the unexploded bullets to that. Nobody would be able to walk around without popping off a toe. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2022, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww2-weapons-used-in-ukraine/962268/23 "2022-04-09T20:29:28Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > James Jones drew upon his experience in the Pacific to write The _Thin Red Line_ and _The Pistol,_ where GIs steal or finagle to get a M1911 as the best weapon against a banzai charge. Forgotten Weapons claims that records show that no German soldier were killed with a 1911. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2022, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww2-weapons-used-in-ukraine/962268/24 "2022-04-10T02:21:35Z")
Just a little addition to the thread, I was reading the following article - > **[Some Really Old Weapons are Making a Comeback in Ukraine](https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/03/some-really-old-weapons-are-making-a-comeback-in-ukraine/)** > > When military historians look at photos taken from the war in Ukraine, it might be easy to mistake the scenes with those from past conflicts. And it mentioned two specific weapons, the DP - 27/28 and the (OMFG) Maxim 1910 Heavy Machine gun. The point for the use of both of these weapons though is that they use 7.62x54R which is a round still current in use by the Ukraine Army. So as with all such weapons, their utility is in direct proportion to the ability to resupply. Something we’ve all largely mentioned in our posts, but bears repeating. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ww2-weapons-used-in-ukraine/962268.md?page=1)