# WWII aerial battle overhead! **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 19, 2016, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-aerial-battle-overhead/746590 "2016-02-19T22:59:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-aerial-battle-overhead/746590/21 "2016-02-21T01:08:45Z")
Most of the 68 civilians killed during the attack on Pearl Harbor were killed by American AA fire falling onto civilian homes and stores. During the battle Japanese torpedo and dive bombers came in low so American AA crews aimed their barrages low and the rounds on a flat trajectory went straight into Honolulu and hit civilians. ---
**Author:** ![pmwgreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@pmwgreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pmwgreen)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-aerial-battle-overhead/746590/22 "2016-02-21T02:43:56Z")
The film Mrs Miniver features a major scene where a civilian is killed by a stray bullet from a dogfight between two fighter planes. Not quite what you’re describing though. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-aerial-battle-overhead/746590/23 "2016-02-21T03:00:03Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > So in the middle of the worst war in human history, when the future of Britain and Europe hung in the balance, and all resources were being dedicated to total war … > > … the BBC felt it necessary to send out a team to record a nightingale singing. Why not? I don’t believe the British spent all day hiding under their beds. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-aerial-battle-overhead/746590/24 "2016-02-21T05:41:54Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > I recall my mother, who was in the countryside near Oxford and a large military supply depot, used to see the children hunting for “brass” after a dogfight. > > This is a quote from an 11yo boy who lived on the South Coast, where they had "_big containers of a mixture of petrol and oil installed in the grounds of a local school. Pipe lines ran underground to the beaches and sea, ready to be pumped out and to set the sea on fire by the Navy._ > > Collecting shrapnel was an almost universal pastime for kids in the city. Now as I understand, werent some of those bullets and rounds, actually duds or even still live rounds that could potentially kill? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-aerial-battle-overhead/746590/25 "2016-02-21T05:56:54Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > So in the middle of the worst war in human history, when the future of Britain and Europe hung in the balance, and all resources were being dedicated to total war … > > … the BBC felt it necessary to send out a team to record a nightingale singing. > > That is very reassuring, in an odd sort of way. They would have gone out to find bluebirds but, well… you know… (I suppose they could hitchhike inside a coconut being carried by _wham_) ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-aerial-battle-overhead/746590/26 "2016-02-21T06:15:04Z")
Thanks for all the responses. Nexttime there’s an aerial battle overhead I will feel no reluctance to run outside and record birdsong. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-aerial-battle-overhead/746590/27 "2016-02-21T08:53:39Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Now as I understand, weren’t some of those bullets and rounds, actually duds or even still live rounds that could potentially kill? Almost certainly. My sister’s husband, who was a boy during the blitz, told a story of a friend who lost several fingers that way. Normally, if they found anything that might go bang, they would stand back and chuck bricks at it. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-aerial-battle-overhead/746590/28 "2016-02-21T09:33:11Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Now as I understand, werent some of those bullets and rounds, actually duds or even still live rounds that could potentially kill? Yes. All through my 1950s childhood holidays around the south coast of England, we were all warned to steer clear of any stray pieces of metal we might find on the beach, occasionally a stray mine might bob up and so on. There is, by the way, a recording of a BBC reporter’s live commentary on a German bombing raid on a convoy in the Channel and a dogfight overhead between fighter planes, in the earlier phases of the Battle of Britain (there was some criticism of turning life and death into a spectator sport), and a famous cartoon in Punch about people’s attitude to the air battle: [http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000xqAELZKJDjE/s/900/720/World-War-2-Cartoons-Punch-1940-09-25-310.jpgust=1456133701703393](http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000xqAELZKJDjE/s/900/720/World-War-2-Cartoons-Punch-1940-09-25-310.jpgust=1456133701703393) Once the big bombing raids started, though, most people took cover rather than stand outside gawping. ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-aerial-battle-overhead/746590/29 "2016-02-21T14:48:39Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Well, they’d been doing the birdsong thing pretty much since the BBC started (and still occasionally do) … As in the ongoing [Tweet of the Day](http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01s6xyk). ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-aerial-battle-overhead/746590/30 "2016-02-22T01:34:34Z")
Then their would be the excitement of seeing parachutes. Plus sometimes fighter battles went down low. ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-aerial-battle-overhead/746590/31 "2016-02-22T02:23:53Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Then their would be the excitement of seeing parachutes. Plus sometimes fighter battles went down low. A few years back I read [Firebirds](http://www.amazon.co.uk/Firebirds-Flying-Typhoon-Charles-Demoulin/dp/0906393485), written by a Belgian pilot flying Hawker Typhoons for the RAF. At one point he shot down a German plane in a low level dogfight over his home town and the resulting crash and explosion blew a cobblestone from a road into the air where it lodged in the leading edge of one of his wings (he kept it as a souvenir). He and his future-wife compared notes after the war and they worked out that she was nearby and witnessed the event. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-aerial-battle-overhead/746590/32 "2016-02-22T06:41:03Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > Most of the 68 civilians killed during the attack on Pearl Harbor were killed by American AA fire falling onto civilian homes and stores. During the battle Japanese torpedo and dive bombers came in low so American AA crews aimed their barrages low and the rounds on a flat trajectory went straight into Honolulu and hit civilians. I believe that the shells were fired without having the timers set. ---
**Author:** ![Dingbang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@Dingbang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dingbang)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-aerial-battle-overhead/746590/33 "2016-02-22T14:32:14Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > This is IMHO - > A .50 cal bullet falling at terminal v is not going to kill you but would hurt like hell. Falling bullets do kill people. Some locales like Los Angeles have actively campaigned against celebratory gunfire for that reason. Study on this risk: [Spent bullets and their injuries: the result of firing weapons into the sky - PubMed](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7996596). Notes that the death rate from falling bullets is 32%, higher than for all shootings because the victim often takes the bullet in the head. Los Angeles: [Falling Bullets Fall: Los Angeles's Deadly Tradition of Celebratory New Year's Gunfire - Newsweek](http://www.newsweek.com/celebratory-gunfire-new-years-eve-los-angeles-410598) I remember this incident here with a 4 yo boy sitting in church on New Year’s Eve. Killed by a falling bullet even after it went through the roof: [http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/falling-bullet-kills-4-year-old-boy-in-dekalb/nFDwr/](http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/falling-bullet-kills-4-year-old-boy-in-dekalb/nFDwr/) And those were typical handgun or rifle caliber. I imagine a .50 caliber would be even worse. ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-aerial-battle-overhead/746590/34 "2016-02-22T15:14:58Z")
This is about dogfights, not bomber interceptions, and in China before Pearl Harbor, but aerial battles could be quite a spectacle. > [@](#): > > Rangoon’s residents then sat in the patios and watched “a bloody good show,” because aircraft were crashing at a more comfortable distance from their fair city. I too was compelled to watch some of these “shows” from the ground, because it was impossible to have an airplane every day. During one of these battles, the air would become so full of vapor trails the sky gave the appearance of some giant bird leaving chicken tracks in barnyard mud. > > It was rare, but occasionally we would have to duck for cover, when some Japanese fighter would come down and strafe too near. From [Baa Baa Black Sheep](https://books.google.com/books?id=GVITAAAAQBAJ&lpg=PP1&dq=baa%20baa%20black%20sheep%20boyington&pg=PA49#v=onepage&q=Rangoon's%20residents%20then%20sat&f=false), by Pappy Boyington ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-aerial-battle-overhead/746590/35 "2016-02-22T15:36:23Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Now as I understand, werent some of those bullets and rounds, actually duds or even still live rounds that could potentially kill? They still are finding live, unexploded ordnance even after this long. I just read an article that said something like 10% of the bombs didn’t explode, and when you have 200 or 500 or more plane raids, that’s a lot of unexploded bombs! Sometimes they find them buried several feet underground. Plus, some had delay detonators that didn’t work, so the bomb is still “alive” and waiting to finally detonate, but they are old and deteriorating. One wrong bump and BOOM. In effect, there are still people dying from WWII bomb raids. And on the subject of nightingales and bombers, I present [Nightingales and Bombers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightingales_%26_Bombers). ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-aerial-battle-overhead/746590/36 "2016-02-22T18:06:45Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Now as I understand, werent some of those bullets and rounds, actually duds or even still live rounds that could potentially kill? In the early part of the war substantially all the ammo fired by fighters at bombers and fired by bombers back at fighters was simple bullets. A lump of lead with a copper jacket. Once it had fallen to the ground & cooled there was no residual hazard. Later on many fighters were firing cannon which had explosive rounds. Which were almost all just impact-fuzed. If they missed the target aircraft some would explode when they landed, and others would just sit there. Perhaps to explode days or years later when they’d corroded enough or the explosive chemistry had deteriorated enough. Or perhaps to explode when next disturbed by people or machinery. Or not. Most of the antiaircraft munitions fired up from the ground were both time- and contact- fuzed. So whether they hit an aircraft or not they exploded in the air and only inert metal rained down. Except for the fraction that were duds. Which might easily have been 10%. Quality control was not ideal; meeting production quotas was the bigger need. Those duds, like the aerial cannon shells just above would explode or not at random whenever for any reason or no reason. Ordinary ground-to-ground artillery & mortar rounds are the same situation. As \*\*JAQ \*\*says just above, shells and aerial bombs of all sizes, descriptions, and original owners are still unearthed every day in 2016 all over Europe. There’s less every year, but I read an article about he German government agency in charge of this effort. They expect to be substantially finished about a century from now. ---
**Author:** ![emulsified](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emulsified/32/2915_2.png) [@emulsified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emulsified)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-aerial-battle-overhead/746590/37 "2016-02-23T19:53:39Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > They still are finding live, unexploded ordnance even after this long. I just read an article that said something like 10% of the bombs didn’t explode, and when you have 200 or 500 or more plane raids, that’s a lot of unexploded bombs! Sometimes they find them buried several feet underground. Plus, some had delay detonators that didn’t work, so the bomb is still “alive” and waiting to finally detonate, but they are old and deteriorating. One wrong bump and BOOM. In effect, there are still people dying from WWII bomb raids. I remember hearing about a bomb being found in London last summer. [Here’s](http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/11/europe/uk-london-unexploded-bomb/) the story on CNN. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-aerial-battle-overhead/746590/38 "2016-02-23T20:37:31Z")
> [@emulsified](#): > > I remember hearing about a bomb being found in London last summer. [Here’s](http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/11/europe/uk-london-unexploded-bomb/) the story on CNN. It happens quite regularly. Tomorrow, Wednesday, February 24th, 2016 bomb disposal experts will diffuse an unexploded 250 kilogram WW II bomb in Oranienburg, Germany: [https://www.rbb-online.de/panorama/beitrag/2016/02/bombenentschaerfung-oranienburg-mittwoch.html](https://www.rbb-online.de/panorama/beitrag/2016/02/bombenentschaerfung-oranienburg-mittwoch.html) 12,000 residents, several schools and kindergartens as well as 2 railway stations will be evacuated. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-aerial-battle-overhead/746590/39 "2016-02-23T21:32:43Z")
This article is in part about a German man whose life was upended by the discovery of a UXB on his property, which was removed–and then authorities found more. Also a fascinating look at how the Germans go about sleuthing for ordnance. [http://www.smithsonianmag.com/ist/?next=/history/seventy-years-world-war-two-thousands-tons-unexploded-bombs-germany-180957680/](http://www.smithsonianmag.com/ist/?next=/history/seventy-years-world-war-two-thousands-tons-unexploded-bombs-germany-180957680/) This story is also about Oranienburg. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-aerial-battle-overhead/746590/40 "2016-02-23T22:55:34Z")
> [@emulsified](#): > > I remember hearing about a bomb being found in London last summer. [Here’s](http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/11/europe/uk-london-unexploded-bomb/) the story on CNN. There was an attempt to maintain a bomb census in London during the Blitz. Here’s a website that records the findings - there were a lot of bombs. > **[Bomb Sight - Mapping the London Blitz](http://bombsight.org/#10/51.4185/-0.0748)** > > Explore the London Blitz through our website. Discover London during WW2 bombing raids, exploring maps, images and memories. The Bomb Sight web map and mobile app reveals WW2 bomb census maps between 7/10/1940 and 06/06/1941, previously available... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-aerial-battle-overhead/746590.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-aerial-battle-overhead/746590.md?page=3)