# WWII: Battle of Midway...why couldn't the Japanese have pressed on and captured the island? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 1, 2020, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-battle-of-midway-why-couldnt-the-japanese-have-pressed-on-and-captured-the-island/917029 "2020-08-01T22:36:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2021, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-battle-of-midway-why-couldnt-the-japanese-have-pressed-on-and-captured-the-island/917029/361 "2021-06-01T04:19:19Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Midway Atoll is REALLY small. It’s maybe a kilometer across at its widest point. Japanese battleships could certainly have at least hit it - they were good enough to hit other ships - and one has to think that dropping a bunch of gun shells on a target with such limited space would have had SOME effect. Whether it would have had enough effect, though, would have been a matter of luck; unless a substantial percentages of the artillery is hit the Japanese troops would be massacred in the water. > > Capturing and holding Midway would have been a white elephant, though. Sure, they could hit it, but as was quoted above, not effectively enough to really make a difference. Without a troop support doctrine then it would be difficult for them to actually provide any meaningful fire during the invasion itself. > [@OttoDaFe](#): > > [Battle of Tenaru / Alligator Creek](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Tenaru) on Guadalcanal. Parshall and Tully use it as an example of what would have happened if Ichiki and his men were dumped offshore at Midway (the Japanese barges had no way of getting over the reef, so the assault forces would have had to cross the reef and then wade 200-300 yards in water that was chest-high in places — all the time under fire). IIRC, in the book, they say that the IJA and IJN did not conduct a joint training for the Midway assault. They didn’t have much experience with opposed landings so it would have been a steep learning curve. Appendix 5 of _Shattered Sword_ discusses the hypothetical of attempting a landing if the US had lost all three carriers, and the authors had concluded would be still be impossible. Had the Japanese attempted to proceed in the historical situation, with the US having two carriers, the outcome for the Japanese would have been all that much worse. The American carrier based dive bombers and fighters would have devastated the invasion forces as they attempted to disembark their landing craft. Invasions where the attackers had air superiority were difficult enough, where the defenders had that advantage would have been suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2021, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-battle-of-midway-why-couldnt-the-japanese-have-pressed-on-and-captured-the-island/917029/362 "2021-06-01T18:17:15Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Had the Japanese attempted to proceed in the historical situation, with the US having two carriers, the outcome for the Japanese would have been all that much worse. One thing I have not seen answered is how long could the two carriers continue flight operations? They have limited aviation fuel and limited munitions. They had spent the last day tossing every plane they had into the air and lost a lot of planes doing it. Did they have fleet supply ships on hand? Certainly they could call for some but those would take time to get there. I can’t imagine those carriers had a whole lot of fight left in them at that point. ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2021, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-battle-of-midway-why-couldnt-the-japanese-have-pressed-on-and-captured-the-island/917029/363 "2021-06-01T18:59:15Z")
They had enough to send strikes against Mogami and Mikuma on June 6th, and they patrolled every day up through June 9th. Losses among all the air groups were bad, but they had at least the equivalent of a full squadron of dive bombers left, which could have done some real damage to surface ships in bombardment mode. With fewer planes to supply and fuel, the number of sorties could be larger. A lot of aircrew had survived ditching, so operating tempos could be sustained by switching off pilots between sorties. Also, Saratoga was on the way - it left Pearl Harbor on June 7th overloaded with extra planes to fly to Enterprise and Hornet. I’m not sure if it accompanied unrep ships, but with another flight deck and full avgas tanks/magazines, I’m pretty sure they could have given a putative Pearl Harbor invasion fleet some bad days. Favorite fact about the Battle of Midway - all seven ships sunk were sunk by Japanese torpedoes. Yorktown and Hammann were sunk by I-168, the four IJN fleet carriers were scuttled by their attending destroyers, and Mikuma’s own torpedoes blew her up when they were set off by the US’s last strike on June 6th. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2021, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-battle-of-midway-why-couldnt-the-japanese-have-pressed-on-and-captured-the-island/917029/364 "2021-06-01T21:53:48Z")
Well, let’s face it. The [Mk 15 torpedo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_15_torpedo), brother to the infamous Mk 14 was a big bag of disappointment at the time and highly unlikely to sink anything even if fired as a point blank coup d’grâce _especially_ since the Mk 6 exploder, common to both, worked dismally with a right angle strike. ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2021, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-battle-of-midway-why-couldnt-the-japanese-have-pressed-on-and-captured-the-island/917029/365 "2021-06-01T22:08:10Z")
Oh, and I should have said two squadrons of dive bombers. 31 took part in the strike against Mikuma, according to Wikipedia. With a strength of 18 aircraft per squadron the US was putting up almost two squadrons worth of SBDs even before Saratoga arrived. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-battle-of-midway-why-couldnt-the-japanese-have-pressed-on-and-captured-the-island/917029/366 "2021-06-02T00:07:43Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I can’t imagine those carriers had a whole lot of fight left in them at that point. You seem to have invented this idea that the US forces were completely beat at this point, rather than being able to continue operations, as was seen from the historical record. It depends on the definition of “fight.” Were the Japanese to somehow magically have six more fresh carriers then the US would have been at a disadvantage, but why would they not have been able to completely disrupt an attempted landing? The Japanese BB would most likely have been safe. The torpedo squads had been decimated (and had bad torpedoes) and destroying battleships by air was always difficult, but unarmored, floating troop transports? Sitting ducks for the dive bombers. The US still have plenty of fighters for strafing the landing craft, _if any were to get launched_. > [@SunUp](#): > > Also, Saratoga was on the way - it left Pearl Harbor on June 7th overloaded with extra planes to fly to Enterprise and Hornet. From Wiki: “The ship carried a total of 47 Wildcats, 45 Dauntlesses, five Devastators and 10 Avengers, including her own air group. Admiral Fletcher (whose flagship _Yorktown_ had been sunk during the battle) came aboard on 8 June and made _Saratoga_ his flagship.” ---
**Author:** ![smilingbandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@smilingbandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smilingbandit)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-battle-of-midway-why-couldnt-the-japanese-have-pressed-on-and-captured-the-island/917029/367 "2021-06-02T03:09:57Z")
Even the IJN Battleships might have been under some non-trivial threat. The minute they approached Midway, their position would become known by default and their power of maneuver shrinks. Now, they might well be target-able from the air, however, once they make a move on Midway Island itself, it may well be a trivial matter of the USN to ambush or flank the attacking forces with destroyers, subs, and heavy cruisers. It would be much better to face off BB to BB, but taking the strategic advantage offered and throwing everything they had would have been worth some risk, I think. Plus, Midway Island would add their own guns to the fight. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-battle-of-midway-why-couldnt-the-japanese-have-pressed-on-and-captured-the-island/917029/368 "2021-06-02T09:29:38Z")
> [@smilingbandit](#): > > It would be much better to face off BB to BB, but taking the strategic advantage offered and throwing everything they had would have been worth some risk, I think. No. Absolutely not! One of the more unappreciated aspects of the Pacific War was that in 1942, Japan had the better operating surface navy and it was a deadly year for the Allies as it took many surface battles around Guadalcanal for the US to start to learn naval warfare. The Japanese fleet was huge! They were hoping for their _decisive battle_ (艦隊決戦) at Midway and had brought everything but the kitchen sinks from the shore installations. They had anticipated that the US would respond with its Pacific Fleet so they were well prepared. They had: **First Fleet** : First Fleet Main Force First Carrier Striking Force **Second Fleet (Midway Invasion Fleet)**: Second Fleet Main Body Midway Occupation Force Midway Support Force All of which were conversing on Midway from various angles and at separate times. By my count, the total number of warships BB 7 CA 10 CL 4 DD 41 This does not count the Attu Invasion force with the following (and not breaking down that complex arrangement) BB 4 CA 3 CL 5 (plus two auxiliary cruisers) DD 21 Plus both Midway and Attu had auxiliary and other ships as well, plus there were a bunch of subs. The US fleet has in the area: BB 0 CA 5 CL 1 DD 9 These had to stay with the carriers outside of the range of the Japanese fleets so there weren’t really any cruisers or destroyers to spare. Besides, it would be have been suicidal to attack the Japanese fleet with cruisers and destroyers. The Japanese were much better prepared for a rumble and the US desperately wanted to avoid a surface engagement with an enemy that possessed those odds. Revisiting this: For the Midway based, artillery, it would have be difficult for the Japanese forces to knock out the four 7" big guns on the southern shores of Sand and Eastern Islands. It’s easy to not appreciate the difficulty of naval bombardments of shore based heavy artillery. It’s easier to sink a ship than to actually knock out the gun itself. Later in the war, the US would bombard Japanese-held islands for a week or more, saturating the suspected areas and just hoping for a lucky hit. That was with the advantage of having the absolutely critical air support. One of the great stories is how well the USN started learning its lessons during that war. Later in the war, it had complex doctrines for bombardments. Here is an example of the detailed Iwo Jima gunfire support report, and compare it to what the Japanese had, which was essentially nothing. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-battle-of-midway-why-couldnt-the-japanese-have-pressed-on-and-captured-the-island/917029/369 "2021-06-02T16:17:49Z")
^ Agreed. According to Yamamoto’s plan, _Kidō Butai_’s aircraft were supposed to soften up the Pacific Fleet, not sink it; that honor was reserved for the Main Body under Yamamoto hisself. Also according to the plan, the USN would have its own battleships in attendance (either with the carriers or as an adjunct force), making the victory all the more decisive. Something that tends to be overlooked is that even after three of his carriers were knocked out, Nagumo still sought a decisive surface battle. And this led, indirectly, to the loss of the _Hiryu_: apparently it never occurred to either Nagumo or Yamaguchi (CarDiv 2’s commander) to do anything but charge headlong northeast, at the American position; if the _Hiryu_ had instead moved north or northwest it would almost certainly have been out of range of American search aircraft. But IJN tactical doctrine called for an attack with everything available, so that’s what they did — and lost the sole survivor of the world’s pre-eminent naval air force, not to mention one of its most promising admirals (Yamaguchi chose to go down with the ship). ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-battle-of-midway-why-couldnt-the-japanese-have-pressed-on-and-captured-the-island/917029/370 "2021-06-02T17:03:58Z")
> [@smilingbandit](#): > > Plus, Midway Island would add their own guns to the fight. By naval standards the Midway Island artillery was unimpressive. According to Wiki, > The atoll’s two main islands, Eastern Island and Sand Island, were both fortified by the Navy. Eastern Island, the smaller of the two islands, had three runways in a triangular configuration, and was defended by six coastal and dual-purpose batteries, armed with 3-, 5-, and 7-inch guns. Sand Island, one mile wide and two long, was completely developed by the Navy, but had no runways until after the war. At the time of the battle, Sand Island was defended by six batteries erected by the [6th Defense Battalion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6th_Defense_Battalion), and one by the [3d Defense Battalion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3d_Defense_Battalion). In clockwise order from the northwest corner of the island, these were: Battery C, two 5-inch guns; “naval” battery, two 3-inch guns; Battery F, four 3-inch guns; Battery A, two 5-inch guns; Battery D, four 3-inch guns; unnamed battery, two 7-inch guns; Battery A, two 5-inch guns; 3d Battalion Battery D, four 3-inch guns.[[4]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_Facilities_at_Midway#cite_note-nrhpinv2-4) So, discounting the 3-inch guns we have roughly the equivalent of three DDs and one CL – without the fire control the ships would have. I’ve not been able to find what their exact positions are, but I doubt they could all be brought to bear on the same target either. The island’s artillary would have made for a bad day for the landing barges but the rest of the IJN would have had little to fear. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-battle-of-midway-why-couldnt-the-japanese-have-pressed-on-and-captured-the-island/917029/371 "2021-06-02T17:08:46Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > …Here is an example of the detailed Iwo Jima gunfire support report, and compare it to what the Japanese had, which was essentially nothing. Here? Where? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-battle-of-midway-why-couldnt-the-japanese-have-pressed-on-and-captured-the-island/917029/372 "2021-06-02T17:15:24Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > > [@TokyoBayer](#): > > > > However, that still leaves the problem of Japan’s inability to > > complete sentences and thoughts. I just figured you had changed your codes halfway through the post. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-battle-of-midway-why-couldnt-the-japanese-have-pressed-on-and-captured-the-island/917029/373 "2021-06-02T17:45:29Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Here? Where? Dammit. This is [the report](http://www.allworldwars.com/Iwo-Jima-Naval-Gunfire-Support.html). > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I just figured you had changed your codes halfway through the post. It’s called having a lockdown and a couple of kids home all day while having to do my teaching online. It’s only been two+ weeks and I’m already going crazy. I have no idea how all of you lasted for as long as you did. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2021, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-battle-of-midway-why-couldnt-the-japanese-have-pressed-on-and-captured-the-island/917029/374 "2021-06-02T19:02:15Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > > > Here? Where? > > Dammit. This is [the report](http://www.allworldwars.com/Iwo-Jima-Naval-Gunfire-Support.html)… Thanks! Interesting. Glad to see the Navy wanted to review lessons learned from previous landings, and make improvements. Lives depended on that. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-battle-of-midway-why-couldnt-the-japanese-have-pressed-on-and-captured-the-island/917029/375 "2021-06-03T02:48:29Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Glad to see the Navy wanted to review lessons learned from previous landings, and make improvements. 1942 is a fascinating year in watching the development of naval doctrine as America was essentially starting from scratch. The early raids by carriers are interesting, but the Guadalcanal campaign was where the deficits really became apparent. > [@DesertDog](#): > > So, discounting the 3-inch guns we have roughly the equivalent of three DDs and one CL – without the fire control the ships would have. I’ve not been able to find what their exact positions are, but I doubt they could all be brought to bear on the same target either. > > The island’s artillary would have made for a bad day for the landing barges but the rest of the IJN would have had little to fear. I agree that Midway’s guns would not likely play a part in a shootout between the two navies, if noting more than the IJN would move away from the atoll when attacked. However, I don’t know if it can be said that they were not a threat to warships. The [bombardment of Cherbourg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardment_of_Cherbourg) is an interesting study where Allied ships attempted to silence German guns, but failed to permanently knock them out. Note the naval gunfire support doctrine by Normandy. In the [bombardment of Cherbourg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardment_of_Cherbourg), this was the SOP: > [@](#): > > During the [Normandy landings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normandy_landings) the standard operating procedure for “Shore Fire Control Parties” (SFCP) called for nine per infantry division. A naval gunfire liaison officer was attached to each regimental fire control center. A naval gunfire officer was attached to each divisional headquarters in charge of all shore parties in his division.[[d]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardment_of_Cherbourg#cite_note-15)[[12]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardment_of_Cherbourg#cite_note-16) > > Every firing ship was provided with an army artillery officer to maintain current information about the position of Allied troops, and to determine whether to fire at any given target at the time. The army liaison officer decided the safety of firing at each target, while the “ship itself controlled the fire.” The SFCP observed the fall of shot and corrected fire with a [clock code](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock_code).[[13]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardment_of_Cherbourg#cite_note-NEPTUNE.usn.admin.Cherbourg,_p.469-473-17) “In all cases, it was the responsibility of the ship to determine whether any given shoot would endanger allied personnel or positions.” This was possible because each bombarding ship was provided with an army officer who tracked positions of Allied forces ashore.[[13]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardment_of_Cherbourg#cite_note-NEPTUNE.usn.admin.Cherbourg,_p.469-473-17) > > Air spotters operated in pairs, one as a spotter, one as an escort, each capable of both missions. Each pair could communicate with one another and with the same ships. Every bombarding ship was provided radio capability to communicate with all varieties of aircraft radios. The third method of fire control involved a combination of air to ground to sea communication. “Army Air Observation” planes spotted for a control party on the ground. They relayed the information to the ships taking fire missions.[[e]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardment_of_Cherbourg#cite_note-18)[[13]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardment_of_Cherbourg#cite_note-NEPTUNE.usn.admin.Cherbourg,_p.469-473-17) This was an attack by Allied forces with 3 battleships, 2 heavy cruisers, 2 light cruisers and 11 destroyers against 20 [casemated](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casemate) batteries. It’s interesting because despite the tremendous firepower by the Allied ships, they were not able to destroy the German batteries themselves. [quote] While reports taken from German prisoners speak of the terror they experienced from the bombardment, there is no evidence that naval gun fire caused great destruction to the German guns. As a result of the non-destruction of the guns, infantry had to be used to capture them. Nevertheless, the naval gunfire was effective in neutralizing the German batteries, disabling 22 of their 24 assigned targets, and during the bombardment there were long periods during which German gun positions fell silent. This was later attributed to the demoralizing effect that they had on the German gunners, rather than a destructive effect on the guns. The fire support provided by the task force’s small ships proved to be more effective, and according to Allied reports after the bombardment this was the most effective aspect of the bombardment. [quote] Naval historian Samuel Morison has these thoughts: > [@](#): > > As a result of the Cherbourg operation, Morison concluded that, even with modern directors for naval gunnery, a casemated gun is “exceedingly difficult for a rapidly maneuvering warship to destroy with a direct hit, although a shower of salvos around the coast defense position will silence the guns temporarily.” Several Allied ships were hit, but no serious damage occurred, However, some of tha was luck. I have not found any indication if the large guns on Midway were casemated or not, but they were certainly well protected with sandbags and such. The threat to the warships was that they needed to come into range to attempt to destroy them, or else the batteries would simply prevent the landing because of the threats to the transports. But again, with the US having air superiority, it’s inconceivable that the Japanese would have attempted an attack. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-battle-of-midway-why-couldnt-the-japanese-have-pressed-on-and-captured-the-island/917029/376 "2021-06-03T13:05:56Z")
**TokyoBayer** , if you quote another Doper but edit his or her remarks, as you did mine, it’s expected that you’ll use ellipses to indicate any omissions. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-battle-of-midway-why-couldnt-the-japanese-have-pressed-on-and-captured-the-island/917029/377 "2021-06-03T13:41:00Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > **TokyoBayer** , if you quote another Doper but edit his or her remarks, as you did mine, it’s expected that you’ll use ellipses to indicate any omissions. Thanks. How did I edit your remarks? I quoted one sentence completely. Here is your post, with my bolding. > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Thanks! Interesting. **Glad to see the Navy wanted to review lessons learned from previous landings, and make improvements.** Lives depended on that. As quoted in my post: > [@](#): > > Glad to see the Navy wanted to review lessons learned from previous landings, and make improvements. Everyone else (expect perhaps you) is not adding ellipses to indicate that there this is not quoting the entire post. This seems to be a convention which only you are following and doesn’t seem to be the general expectation. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-battle-of-midway-why-couldnt-the-japanese-have-pressed-on-and-captured-the-island/917029/378 "2021-06-03T14:49:45Z")
Please raise reports and ask the moderator staff to deal with possible violations of quoting rules. Don’t argue the issue or junior mod in-thread. Thanks, RickJay Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-battle-of-midway-why-couldnt-the-japanese-have-pressed-on-and-captured-the-island/917029/379 "2021-06-03T15:05:48Z")
**RickJay** , as mod, has advised me that “The primary concern is ensuring the quoted poster’s words are not being presented in such a fashion as to deliberately misrepresent context.” I had understood, consistent with academic practice, that ellipses were to be used whenever _anything_ was omitted from a previous Doper’s post. Now I know otherwise. Ignorance fought - thanks again. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2021, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-battle-of-midway-why-couldnt-the-japanese-have-pressed-on-and-captured-the-island/917029/380 "2021-06-03T22:50:45Z")
FWIW and worth every penny you paid for it. … I will note that Discourse makes partial quoting so easy compared to vBulletin that many times folks quote a freestanding sentence or three out of a larger post with no leading or trailing ellipses. Whereas if snipping multiple big hunks out of a quote, many / most folks will include an ellipsis whereever a hunk was removed in the middle of the quote. I find myself falling into the habit of skipping leading and trailing elipses at least sometimes. Not that I think that’s good technique, but I do think it’s part of the evolving community standard. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-battle-of-midway-why-couldnt-the-japanese-have-pressed-on-and-captured-the-island/917029.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-battle-of-midway-why-couldnt-the-japanese-have-pressed-on-and-captured-the-island/917029.md?page=20)