# WWII Memorial shutdown controversy **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 4, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354 "2013-10-04T14:25:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/201 "2013-10-16T02:45:48Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > I worked for several small companies who managed to provide very good insurance for their employees. > > If you have a better solution, let’s hear it. A solution to the hours reduction problem would be to remove businesses from health care. It’s not their function. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/202 "2013-10-16T18:02:11Z")
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a new [Benghazi](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/10/16/despicable-park-service-chief-dragged-before-house-panel-ripped-over-closures/)! > [@](#): > > The head of the National Park Service was pilloried at a tense House hearing Wednesday over the agency’s allegedly “arbitrary” decisions during the partial shutdown which Republicans charge were made to inflict maximum inconvenience on the public. > > “The policies have been arbitrary, inconsistent, and ever-changing,” Rep. Doc Hastings, R-Wash., chairman of the House Natural Resources Committee, said. > > He alleged the National Park Service is trying to make the partial shutdown “as painful and as visible as possible.” ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/203 "2013-10-16T18:38:20Z")
To illustrate how the Barry O’bama Regime made the government shutdown extremely painful to veterans for no other reason than to hate America, check out [this](http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/how-much-of-the-gop-spin-about-angry-vets-is-true-98362.html) news story – I’m sure you’ll be furious!!! > [@](#): > > “We’ve had no problems at all,” said Jim McLaughlin, a lead organizer for the Honor Flight Network… The Honor Flight Network also hasn’t made any changes to its flight schedules — many of the chartered aircraft were reserved weeks or months in advance, including several groups of veterans who arrived Tuesday from Arizona, Texas and Missouri. > > “They’ve been very cooperative and very polite,” he said of the Park Service, which has allowed the groups to visit under the auspices that they’re conducting “First Amendment activities.” Time to storm the Barry-cades again!!! Leaving the sarcasm behind, as I said a couple pages ago, I’ve been by the WW2 Memorial a couple times since the shutdown started. This is a big nothing news story blown totally out of proportion by camera whoring politicians. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/204 "2013-10-16T18:42:24Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > A solution to the hours reduction problem would be to remove businesses from health care. It’s not their function. So you’re with us on going to single payer next? Great, glad to hear it. It’ll make our parasitic insurance industry find an honest living, too. Um, you do realize that Obamacare is a major step in that direction, right? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/205 "2013-10-16T18:43:27Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > To illustrate how the Barry O’bama Regime made the government shutdown extremely painful to veterans for no other reason than to hate America, check out [this](http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/how-much-of-the-gop-spin-about-angry-vets-is-true-98362.html) news story – I’m sure you’ll be furious!!! > > Time to storm the Barry-cades again!!! > > Leaving the sarcasm behind, as I said a couple pages ago, I’ve been by the WW2 Memorial a couple times since the shutdown started. This is a big nothing news story blown totally out of proportion by camera whoring politicians. They’ve been [arresting people](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/9/rangers-arrest-21-venturing-grand-canyon-post-shut/) for trespassing at national parks. Apparently Barry can’t muster the strength to do it to veterans in his own back yard. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/206 "2013-10-16T18:47:01Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > They’ve been [arresting people](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/9/rangers-arrest-21-venturing-grand-canyon-post-shut/) for trespassing at national parks. Apparently Barry can’t muster the strength to do it to veterans in his own back yard. How dare they arrest people for breaking the law! Damn you Barry for personally instructing those park rangers to arrest those great Americans for doing what Great Americans do! I’m assuming you have a shred of evidence that Obama was involved in these decisions, of course… ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/207 "2013-10-16T18:53:12Z")
Oh, and those 21 were not arrested- they were issued citations. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/208 "2013-10-16T18:57:47Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > So you’re with us on going to single payer next? Great, glad to hear it. It’ll make our parasitic insurance industry find an honest living, too. > > Um, you do realize that Obamacare is a major step in that direction, right? So you’re with me on individual responsibility where everybody pays their way and there are no citizen parasites. Good to hear. Obamacare was a fail out of the gate and has done nothing but harm so far. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/209 "2013-10-16T19:01:09Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > They’ve been [arresting people](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/9/rangers-arrest-21-venturing-grand-canyon-post-shut/) for trespassing at national parks. Apparently Barry can’t muster the strength to do it to veterans in his own back yard. So you’re saying that the President isn’t trying to make this shutdown as painful as possible by annoying and harassing veterans who are just trying to celebrate their service? And Michelle Bachmann and Ted Cruz just showed up to the wrong protest at the wrong place of our national heritage this weekend – maybe they entered “Grand Canyon National Park” on the GPS but wound up at 17th and Constitution, NW by mistake? Jeez – Fox News keeps changing the talking points on why Obama is destroying America. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/210 "2013-10-16T19:01:38Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > So you’re with me on individual responsibility where everybody pays their way and there are no citizen parasites. Good to hear. So, somebody getting a catastrophic illness or injury through no action or inaction of their own, but who does not have employer-provided insurance to prevent their family’s ruin as well as their own, is a “parasite”. At least you’re getting that out in the open. :dubious: Yes, “decrease the surplus population” … ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/211 "2013-10-16T19:09:07Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Oh, and those 21 were not arrested- they were issued citations. Is that like a medal? Are they getting a reward for their actions? Or were they detained and then issued an order to appear before a court for trespassing? Because that’s what it means in the context I cited. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/212 "2013-10-16T19:13:37Z")
> [@Donald\_Rump](#): > > Ladies and gentlemen, we have a new [Benghazi](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/10/16/despicable-park-service-chief-dragged-before-house-panel-ripped-over-closures/)! As a foreigner, I’m still baffled that they’re still trying to cash in on this non-scandal. At least with Benghazi, even if the outrage was just as manufactured, it still had its roots on a fresh pile of corpses. But \*this \*?! So you can’t go see Old Faithful this winter. So glorious geezers can’t visit the graves of friends they’ve been mourning their entire lives for a couple weeks. My humble question is : WHO GIVES A BARREL ROLLING FUCK ?! Is this really the urgent matter right now ? How is this even on the radar ? Painful and visible ? Are you bleeding \*serious \*? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/213 "2013-10-16T19:15:38Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/214 "2013-10-16T19:16:26Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > So you’re with me on individual responsibility where everybody pays their way and there are no citizen parasites. Good to hear. > > Obamacare was a fail out of the gate and has done nothing but harm so far. It doesn’t go into effect until January. > [@Magiver](#): > > Is that like a medal? Are they getting a reward for their actions? Or were they detained and then issued an order to appear before a court for trespassing? Because that’s what it means in the context I cited. They _were_ trespassing. Do you break into stores just because they’re closed when you feel like shopping? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/215 "2013-10-16T19:17:51Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > So, somebody getting a catastrophic illness or injury through no action or inaction of their own, but who does not have employer-provided insurance to prevent their family’s ruin as well as their own, is a “parasite”. At least you’re getting that out in the open. :dubious: > > Yes, “decrease the surplus population” … People who willfully do not buy insurance when they are able to are parasites. People who cannot buy insurance are a legitimate problem that could have been helped through legislation without causing additional financial harm to others. There is no constitutional grounds for attaching healthcare to an employer. There is no moral grounds for legislation that financially harms a business to the point it passes that burden on to the employee in the form of reduced hours and that’s exactly what Obamacare does. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/216 "2013-10-16T19:27:50Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > People who cannot buy insurance are a legitimate problem that could have been helped through legislation without causing additional financial harm to others. Obamacare does that. Your objection to it, despite it not following your stated principle, is, what, then, the name? > [@](#): > > There is no constitutional grounds for attaching healthcare to an employer. There is no moral grounds for legislation that financially harms a business to the point it passes that burden on to the employee in the form of reduced hours and that’s exactly what Obamacare does. No, it does not, and that’s been explained to you already. Obamacare \*makes \*insurance available at an affordable price, _no matter_ the actions an employer may take. Yes, there have been incidents of businesses cutting back hours, but their use of Obamacare as an excuse for simply screwing their workers again is simply a lie - a lie that’s been repeated and believed, by those who wish to believe it, far often than it deserves. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/217 "2013-10-16T19:33:23Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > As a foreigner, I’m still baffled that they’re still trying to cash in on this non-scandal. At least with Benghazi, even if the outrage was just as manufactured, it still had its roots on a fresh pile of corpses. But \*this \*?! > So you can’t go see Old Faithful this winter. So glorious geezers can’t visit the graves of friends they’ve been mourning their entire lives for a couple weeks. My humble question is : WHO GIVES A BARREL ROLLING FUCK ?! Is this really the urgent matter right now ? How is this even on the radar ? Painful and visible ? Are you bleeding \*serious \*? Who gives a fuck that a President ignored it’s citizens under attack for 8 hours when there were people specifically trained to deal with it on standby? I care. So does Barry (for a different reason) because his promise of transparency doesn’t seem to apply to events that hold him accountable for his actions. As to the people who can’t visit the memorial these are veterans who can’t make it on their own because of their age and infirmity. They are on donated and per-arranged flights with escorts to visit a memorial that represents a war fought by them so that people like you can voice an opinion freely. And yes, a couple of weeks makes a difference. These people are dying at a rate of 600 a day. So again, I care. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/218 "2013-10-16T19:35:35Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Who gives a fuck that a President ignored it’s citizens under attack for 8 hours when there were people specifically trained to deal with it on standby? People with a distorted view of reality? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/219 "2013-10-16T19:39:50Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Who gives a fuck that a President ignored it’s citizens under attack for 8 hours when there were people specifically trained to deal with it on standby? You are not repeating things that are factually true. You are repeating a misinformation that was told to you by RW media. Read that line twice, because it has to sink in. > [@](#): > > I care. So does Barry (for a different reason) because his promise of transparency doesn’t seem to apply to events that hold him accountable for his actions. Again, the things you believe about Benghazi are not true. You should take the time to learn the true things, so that you do not base your decisions on “facts” that are not true. > [@](#): > > As to the people who can’t visit the memorial these are veterans who can’t make it on their own because of their age and infirmity. They are on donated and per-arranged flights with escorts to visit a memorial that represents a war fought by them so that people like you can voice an opinion freely. And yes, a couple of weeks makes a difference. These people are dying at a rate of 600 a day. So again, I care. Then you should have pressured the GOP to not shut down the government. This is utterly the GOP’s fault, and many, many more people than those WWII Veterans had their lives disrupted because of the GOP tantrum. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/220 "2013-10-16T19:43:25Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Obamacare does that. Your objection to it, despite it not following your stated principle, is, what, then, the name? Burning my neighbor’s livelihood down so the guy next to him can have insurance doesn’t make much sense except to people like you. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > No, it does not, and that’s been explained to you already. You admit that it’s not constitutional so there is no “explanation”. It’s not. Period. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Obamacare \*makes \*insurance available at an affordable price, _no matter_ the actions an employer may take. Yes, there have been incidents of businesses cutting back hours, but their use of Obamacare as an excuse for simply screwing their workers again is simply a lie - a lie that’s been repeated and believed, by those who wish to believe it, far often than it deserves. There is no exaggeration regarding the extra costs passed on to businesses. All it’s done is harm American businesses and thus employees. And again, Mr transparency can’t be bothered to provide the numbers that show just how badly this program has done out of the gate. After 2 weeks and thousands and thousands of website hits the state of Delaware can now say they have [ONE person](http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/delaware-celebrates-first-person-finally-enrolls-obamacare_763603.html) on Obamacare. This is one expensive joke of a program. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354.md?page=12)