# WWII Memorial shutdown controversy **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 4, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354 "2013-10-04T14:25:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/221 "2013-10-16T19:52:30Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Burning my neighbor’s livelihood down so the guy next to him can have insurance doesn’t make much sense except to people like you. Paying your fair share of taxes is like burning your neighborhood down? You’re making no sense here. > [@](#): > > You admit that it’s not constitutional so there is no “explanation”. It’s not. Period. No, I do not admit that, and neither does the Supreme Court, as you may have heard. It \*is \* constitutional (period), like it or not. > [@](#): > > There is no exaggeration regarding the extra costs passed on to businesses. All it’s done is harm American businesses and thus employees. Even with those costs _not yet in effect_? And in excess of the costs they’re already paying for sponsored health insurance, as a necessary cost of simply attracting and retaining employees here in the free market? Wrong again. > [@](#): > > And again, Mr transparency can’t be bothered to provide the numbers that show just how badly this program has done out of the gate. \*Nobody \*is on Obamacare until January 1. Calling it a failure already, as you insist on doing, is based on imagined data, shall we call it. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/222 "2013-10-16T19:52:31Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > As to the people who can’t visit the memorial these are veterans who can’t make it on their own because of their age and infirmity. They are on donated and per-arranged flights with escorts to visit a memorial that represents a war fought by them so that people like you can voice an opinion freely. And yes, a couple of weeks makes a difference. These people are dying at a rate of 600 a day. So again, I care. Oh, I see, suddenly we’ve swung back to the “vets can’t visit the memorials” propaganda. I thought you dropped that unfounded line of complaint when I quoted the guy who arranges the Honor Flights saying that the visits have been going well – mostly because you started complaining about 21 people trespassing at the Grand Canyon. So now you’re back to complaining about vets who ARE visiting the memorials? Why are you complaining about veterans’ access to memorials when they are actually visiting the memorials? Where is the problem, and why the hell do you keep complaining about something that’s a non-issue? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/223 "2013-10-16T19:55:23Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Who gives a fuck that a President ignored it’s citizens under attack for 8 hours when there were people specifically trained to deal with it on standby? I care. So does Barry (for a different reason) because his promise of transparency doesn’t seem to apply to events that hold him accountable for his actions. People are free to give a fuck or not about Benghazi, either way I understand (even if my own opinion is that it’s a bunch of crap). What I don’t understand is why people seem to give even half of one re: this stupid NPS business. > [@](#): > > As to the people who can’t visit the memorial these are veterans who can’t make it on their own because of their age and infirmity. They are on donated and per-arranged flights with escorts to visit a memorial that represents a war fought by them so that people like you can voice an opinion freely. And yes, a couple of weeks makes a difference. These people are dying at a rate of 600 a day. So again, I care. I’m fairly confident they’ve had the opportunity to pay their respects to their dead friends once or twice before. Like, over the past 60 years or so. Visiting old graves today isn’t going to lighten a load they’ve borne their entire lives. So quit draping yourself in \*their \*flag, why don’t you ? Besides, as I understand the organized veteran tours were given a special dispensation, like, 30 seconds after their plight was brought to the public consciousness by some senator or other. So, again : why is this still making the news ?! ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/224 "2013-10-16T20:27:54Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I’m fairly confident they’ve had the opportunity to pay their respects to their dead friends once or twice before. Like, over the past 60 years or so. Visiting old graves today isn’t going to lighten a load they’ve borne their entire lives. > So quit draping yourself in \*their \*flag, why don’t you ? It didn’t exist 60 years ago, or 10 years ago. It opened in 2004 and the program to connect the vets to it are for those who otherwise couldn’t visit it. Sorry that bothers you but it’s newsworthy when a vet in a wheelchair is denied viewing a public monument. It’s an open space walkway located between the Lincoln Memorial and the Washington Monument. It would be like closing Trafalgar Square in London. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/225 "2013-10-16T20:35:17Z")
And had this been the first WW2 monument ever, you might have had a point there. Beyond that, for what seems to be the umpteenth time : the vets aren’t denied a thing. They’re allowed in. They’re literally the only ones allowed in. Why are you still ringing that bell ? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/226 "2013-10-16T20:36:40Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Sorry that bothers you but it’s newsworthy when a vet in a wheelchair is denied viewing a public monument. The guy who arranges the Honor Flights for these vets in wheelchairs said, “We’ve had no problems at all,” and that the Park Service has been “very cooperative and very polite.” ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/227 "2013-10-16T20:41:25Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It would be like closing Trafalgar Square in London. [Trafalgar Square closed.](http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/4665168/tom-cruise-shut-down-london-all-you-need-is-kill.html) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/228 "2013-10-16T20:42:35Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Visiting old graves today isn’t going to lighten a load they’ve borne their entire lives. ! Just so you know, not that it changes your argument in any way, nobody is buried at the World War II Memorial. > **[World War II Memorial](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_World_War_II_Memorial)** > > The World War II Memorial is a national memorial in the United States dedicated to Americans who served in the armed forces and as civilians during World War II. It is located on the National Mall in Washington, D.C. > The memorial consists of 56 granite pillars, decorated with bronze laurel wreaths, representing U.S. states and territories, and a pair of small triumphal arches for the Atlantic and Pacific theaters, surrounding an oval plaza and fountain. On its short axis is a memorial wall of... ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/229 "2013-10-16T20:57:18Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > Just so you know, not that it changes your argument in any way, nobody is buried at the World War II Memorial. > > [World War II Memorial - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_World_War_II_Memorial) I know (well, I didn’t know but I assumed as much, it’s not like they were going to dig up old bones and relocate them in 2004 :)), but all memorials are metaphorical graves, aren’t they ? ETA : err, symbolical rather than metaphorical might be the better word here. Pick one 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/230 "2013-10-16T21:04:19Z")
(oh, and I assumed Arlington and similar national cemetaries might be closed right now, as well. I know the WW2 graveyards of US servicemen here in France that are administered by the US are closed ATM.) ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/231 "2013-10-16T21:37:38Z")
I heard that the National Cemetary in Houston is open but reduced staff, and they are conducting fewer burials/ceremonies. ---
**Author:** ![Walmarticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Walmarticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walmarticus)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/232 "2013-10-16T21:43:06Z")
I don’t think that Obama unilaterally shut down the memorial but it just makes sense that the government wouldn’t want to shut down the absolute least noticeable functions, right? It’s a good strategy for ending shut downs sooner for both parties. They _shouldn’t_ try to hide furloughs. What’s there to be gained besides even deeper furloughs? I don’t think there’s an incentive to shut down the most noticeable things either, because then the thing on people’s minds would be all the other things they could have shut down. I think there’s a sweet spot of plausible non-essentiality. I also think it’s interesting how a private firm has got sort of the opposite incentive. Like, I saw some candy bar that was “Two for the Price of One!”, but both bars together were smaller than a regular size. They’ll try really hard to hide the fact that you’re actually getting less. If the government did that, it’d make it worse. It’s a little interesting to me. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/233 "2013-10-17T06:06:20Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > The guy who arranges the Honor Flights for these vets in wheelchairs said, “We’ve had no problems at all,” and that the Park Service has been “very cooperative and very polite.” It’s amazing what a camera will do. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/234 "2013-10-17T06:11:14Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > [Trafalgar Square closed.](http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/4665168/tom-cruise-shut-down-london-all-you-need-is-kill.html) 😃 OK, that was funny. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/235 "2013-10-17T06:24:29Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s amazing what a camera will do. Yes, they can make you believe all kinds of stuff. The propaganda people are well aware of that. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/236 "2013-10-17T11:02:59Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s amazing what a camera will do. So I take that as an implicit admission that you know that your complaints in this thread are without merit, but you went ahead and made them anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/237 "2013-10-18T05:28:14Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > So I take that as an implicit admission that you know that your complaints in this thread are without merit, but you went ahead and made them anyway. The evidence that the park service closed the memorial was posted. Nice try. The fact that it was in Barry’s back yard seems to mean the difference between looking the other way and the arrests made at national parks elsewhere which was also cited. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/238 "2013-10-18T12:06:44Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The evidence that the park service closed the memorial was posted. Nice try. The fact that it was in Barry’s back yard seems to mean the difference between looking the other way and the arrests made at national parks elsewhere which was also cited. The evidence that veterans were afforded full access to the memorials has been posted, and you refuse to acknowledge it. If you are in profound denial about the basic facts of the events, your opinions on the matter are worthless. It’s like if a liberal got riled up that “plastic guns” can be snuck through metal detectors, you might point out that all such guns are, in fact, found by metal detectors. If liberals keep repeating, “but the guns are PLASTIC!” doesn’t make them right and you wrong. Similarly, repeating over and over “But there were Barrycades!” doesn’t mean veterans were denied access. I saw vets at the memorials, the guy organizing the honor flights said thee were no problems, and you’ve just bought in to a fake story to manufacture outrage. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/239 "2013-10-18T12:59:34Z")
Just because a story isn’t true doesn’t make it a “fake” story! The story wasn’t fake, it was actually there! Just wasn’t so, that’s all! ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2013, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/240 "2013-10-18T15:07:04Z")
Now that the government has reopened, I wonder how long this incident will be trotted out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354.md?page=13)