# WWII Memorial shutdown controversy **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 4, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354 "2013-10-04T14:25:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/21 "2013-10-04T16:29:14Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I understood that the campgrounds are essentially leased to a private company via contract. Those companies “oversee” the campgrounds, collect the fees, etc. Rangers are still responsible for the safety and security of the grounds. In any case, any companies that are leased to look to maintenance aren’t being paid, either, and also can’t just directly take money from the till. It’s a funny company that would let employees be paid directly from the cash register. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > _Shrug_ What do I know, I’ve only been there a couple of times personally. I’ve read it in a couple of places over the last few days. Well, yes, that’s what happens when the primary source of a particular piece of information has a known bias and no particular duty to actual facts. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/22 "2013-10-04T16:30:17Z")
It is an outdoor memorial, and the government is on shutdown. With that, they had the money and staff to erect barriers and staff them. Closing the gates of Yosemite - I get it. Putting re-directs on websites so that people don’t try to register / reserve / ask for help? Makes sense. Erecting barricades at an outdoor memorial in DC, and staffing it with cops? That sounds like someone is playing games to get people outraged. I am happy that the uniformed park person let the veterans through. Congressman blowhard should be told to get his ass back to Congress and fix the problem. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/23 "2013-10-04T16:30:28Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Both untrue. The campgrounds are nominally overseen by rangers in the United States Forest Service, who are paid via federal funds. And they can’t take campground fees to pay themselves, just as IRS employees can’t just take tax dollars directly to pay themselves. Here’s my [cite](http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013/10/02/shutdown-white-house-ordering-privately-run-privately-funded-parks-to-close/). > [@](#): > > Warren Meyer of Phoenix, AZ, is owner and president of Recreation Resource Management, Inc. RRM employs about 400-500 camp workers and managers across about a dozen states. It is one of a handful of companies that have been managing national parks and campgrounds as tenants for years, through previous government shutdowns including the last one in 1995-1996. Those previous shutdowns never closed any of the parks managed in this way, but the current shutdown threatens closure. > > The campgrounds are self-sufficient and receive no federal funding. No government employees staff or manage the parks. The management companies pay the National Park Service out of the funds they generate from operating the thousands of campgrounds. So the reason for the shutdown is puzzling to Meyer. If he’s lying, it should be easy enough for you to prove. Hop to it. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/24 "2013-10-04T16:32:39Z")
On a Google search, the closed NPS website says: “The public may visit the World War II Memorial 24 hours a day. Rangers are on duty to answer questions from 9:30 a.m. to 11:30 p.m. daily.” So the lesson is, don’t trust knuckleheads at the Weekly Standard. [Link.](https://www.google.com/search?q=The+public+may+visit+the+World+War+II+Memorial+24+hours+a+day.+Rangers+are+on+duty+to+answer+questions+from+9%3A30+a.m.+to+11%3A30+p.m.+daily&oq=The+public+may+visit+the+World+War+II+Memorial+24+hours+a+day.+Rangers+are+on+duty+to+answer+questions+from+9%3A30+a.m.+to+11%3A30+p.m.+daily&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i64&sourceid=chrome&espvd=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8) ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/25 "2013-10-04T16:35:19Z")
I’ve only been there once, but I recall it as being pretty wide-open. Can’t you walk right into without passing through any gates from the 17th Street side? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/26 "2013-10-04T16:38:19Z")
Here are some other examples of what appear to be petty, spiteful, and (most importantly) unnecessary closures: [National Park Service Closes Only Private National Park in the Country](http://m.townhall.com/tipsheet/cortneyobrien/2013/10/02/national-park-service-now-closing-parks-that-receive-no-federal-aid-n1715200) [Is the Federal Government Shutdown Forcing the Closure of Privately Run Facilities?](http://www.volokh.com/2013/10/03/federal-government-shutdown-forcing-closure-privately-run-facilities/) ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/27 "2013-10-04T16:41:44Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > If he’s lying, it should be easy enough for you to prove. Hop to it. He might be right about his particular campgrounds. But it appears [several others are open](http://intransit.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/10/03/with-shutdown-questions-about-visiting-national-forests/?_r=0) and it’s basically a big “it depends”. At least [up in Oregon](http://www.oregonlive.com/travel/index.ssf/2013/10/us_forest_service_national_par.html), several campgrounds operated by private companies are staying open while others are closing. If it’s spite, it’s non-uniform and patchy, which doesn’t make sense for a systematic campaign of spite and pettiness. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/28 "2013-10-04T16:53:07Z")
Here’s [yet another example](http://www.grandcanyonnews.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=10618&TM=46029.66): > [@](#): > > Highway 64 initially remained open for thru traffic and all overlooks and pull-outs were closed to the public as part of the park closure. They tried to close the pullouts along Hwy 64. They basically barricaded the shoulder of the highway. Why? Those places don’t normally have federal employees present. It’s just a patch of dirt. Some, like me, suspect it’s the Obama admin being petty and spiteful to score political points. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/29 "2013-10-04T16:54:58Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > If it’s spite, it’s non-uniform and patchy, which doesn’t make sense for a systematic campaign of spite and pettiness. Perhaps because in addition to being petty and spiteful, they’re also incompetent? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/30 "2013-10-04T16:59:38Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > They tried to close the pullouts along Hwy 64. They basically barricaded the shoulder of the highway. Why? Those places don’t normally have federal employees present. It’s just a patch of dirt. Some, like me, suspect it’s the Obama admin being petty and spiteful to score political points. Again - who empties the trash cans? ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/31 "2013-10-04T17:02:56Z")
I don’t hear any complaints from the right wingers about the IRS being closed. It’s all the same government shutdown. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/32 "2013-10-04T17:08:36Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Some, like me, suspect it’s the Obama admin being petty and spiteful to score political points. There’s no evidence for this, of course, but let’s just think it through logically- if some national parks/memorials/etc are closed during the shutdown, it could be for a few reasons: 1. Obama gave the order to shut down memorials and parks because he’s evil and he likes to make people sad. 2. Lack of funding- not enough employees to maintain them, ensure they are clean, watch over them, etc. 3. General bureaucratic weirdness- for example, Park Rangers in region A are funded, but region B only get half funding, and region C can come to work but they aren’t being paid, or Park Ranger Boss in region A said “close the parks!” because that’s what he thought was supposed be done, and in region B they said “keep a few parks open!”, etc. 4. Something else. Of these options, 1 seems like the least likely and most ridiculous. But I’m sure Ted Cruz is very happy that you believe it! So keep making Ted Cruz happy- keep believing that Obama is evil and wants to make people sad. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/33 "2013-10-04T17:15:12Z")
This is basic political silliness, and it should be very easy to see past it. No, the President doesn’t spend his time making decisions about whether individual parks and memorials stay open, and yes, the Republicans will of course blame little things on Obama whether it is or isn’t his fault. So basically, whether or not the Republicans blame Obama for something has no actual correlation with whether he had anything to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/34 "2013-10-04T17:25:07Z")
Honestly, I don’t care if it \*is \*perceived as “petty and spiteful”. I mean, hell, how would describe the shutdown itself? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/35 "2013-10-04T17:27:28Z")
So, his primary sources for news and information are the _Weekly Standard_ and _PJ Media_? I think I may see where the problem is, here. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/36 "2013-10-04T17:28:32Z")
The Office of Management and Budget (OMB) issued guidelines and directions concerning a possible shutdown on 17 September 2013 to all federal departments and agencies. Secretaries and agency heads began sending out generic if-we-get-shutdown-notices to their staffs that day or the next day. The guidelines and directions were to be interpreted based upon an agency’s importance in the greater scheme of things and within existing agency directives and policies. Perhaps DOI/NPS policies are designed to express a very public impact during the shutdown. When I worked for them years ago, everything we did was for a public impact. The agency I work for now is much more laid back and low key. Our public presence is there but how we impact it during the shutdown is totally different. Depending upon your own political leanings and partisanship reflect on where you are getting your news and how you choose to express your ire. What people seem to forget is that there are laws and regulations that agencies must follow. The NPS Rangers appear to be following the letter of the law and how they were directed to enforce the law. But at the same time each has some discretionary authority when dealing with the public. People who blame the messenger are making the news for their own reasons at the expense of those who may be working as excepted employees during the shutdown. Funny how everyone was praising the US Capitol Police yesterday, even though all of them are excepted employees. They are all working but none are getting paid for their work. They are doing their jobs protecting lives and property, just as the Rangers on the Mall are excepted employees, not getting paid, and doing their jobs protecting lives and property. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/37 "2013-10-04T17:49:12Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Again - who empties the trash cans? There aren’t any trashcans. Maybe you’re thinking of rest stops? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/38 "2013-10-04T17:49:32Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Sounds like someone has been tuned in to Faux News, again. > > The reality is that all of the National Park Service is stopped as a non-essential government function. > On Tuesday, a group of WWII vets happened to arrive at the Washington WWII memorial, found it closed, and knocked over the barriers to go see it anyway. No one was arrested or hindered. > Several furloughed NPS rangers have begun to watch over the site, without pay, to be sure that Veterans in the [Honor Flight](http://www.honorflight.org/) program still have access to the memorial, even though it is closed. I hope that’s not true, because by law a furloughed government employee is not permitted to volunteer their services to the government. Unless otherwise authorized by law, an agency may not accept the voluntary services of an employee. (See 31 USC § 1342.) ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/39 "2013-10-04T17:52:52Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > There aren’t any trashcans. Maybe you’re thinking of rest stops? So you’re saying that the closing of scenic overlooks on Federal land is part of an evil plot by Obama to vaguely annoy Americans into liking Obamacare? What’s next, tax forms on corporate profits will be printed in slightly smaller fonts in order to punish the rich? ---
**Author:** ![lost4life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@lost4life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lost4life)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/40 "2013-10-04T17:56:56Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > There aren’t any trashcans. Maybe you’re thinking of rest stops? None? Wow. They all have them here. I can’t figure out if that makes us cleaner or messier. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354.md?page=3)