# WWII Memorial shutdown controversy **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 4, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354 "2013-10-04T14:25:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/101 "2013-10-07T17:08:38Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > So do the police. They have as much jurisdiction in a public park as the custodians of the park. Now the city may not come out and mow the grass it will send officers if their services are needed. > > Again, the memorial in question falls in the category of statue and does not require a person to operate it. The police for the National Mall are the Park Police. It is under their jurisdiction, not the DC Metro Police. It may well require an act of Congress to give the DC Metro police jurisdiction down there - but I don’t know that for certain. Should the Columbus, GA police take over security for Ft. Benning too? Also, are you now asking Washington DC to pick up the bill for maintaining all of the federal property there during the shut down? Good luck on that one. Here is part of the problem - Congress has charged the National Park Service with the ongoing care and feeding of those monuments and memorials. There are certain levels of protection that the Park Service is mandated to maintain there, even without a budget. Congress knows that, and they knew what would happen if there was a shut down. I don’t disagree that much of this is political - and at several levels. But the fact remains, the NPS is responsible for protecting those sites. Since staffing has been greatly reduced, much of the remaining staff - most of them Law Enforcement - have been placed in high visibility positions to protect the sites while they are closed. It is pathetic, but those monuments are high visibility targets for vandalism. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/102 "2013-10-07T17:15:35Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > Again, I point to the convenience of the sites on the Mall for such a showdown. Take a look at this little blurb from a CNN piece on the World War II Memorial on Oct 1: > > “Rep. Michele Bachmann of Minnesota, wearing casual clothes, said she was out walking when she heard about the pile-up outside the memorial and decided to hustle over to the site.” > > And there she was in her fetching jogging outfit. It is only 1.5 miles from the Capitol, and there you have elderly vets being barred from their Monument - I am surprised there wasn’t a ten limo pileup due to all of the Congressionals hustling over. You know, I hadn’t even stopped to consider that. So it’s not \*just \*manufactured outrage, it’s lazy manufactured outrage. I can respect the lazy part. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/103 "2013-10-07T17:44:26Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I must ask: did you intend to make this an ironic post? Because as it stands, it is a perfect satire of Tea Party thinking: it doesn’t matter what the facts may say, I’m still right! . What exactly are you right about? Is the WWII closed down or not? Were there barricades set up or not? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/104 "2013-10-07T17:46:55Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > The police for the National Mall are the Park Police. It is under their jurisdiction, not the DC Metro Police. It may well require an act of Congress to give the DC Metro police jurisdiction down there - but I don’t know that for certain. Should the Columbus, GA police take over security for Ft. Benning too? It’s called jurisdiction overlap. Do you think the park police handle all emergencies? In my area the base police write tickets for the roads outside the base as do the highway patrol and local police. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/105 "2013-10-07T17:58:32Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > What exactly are you right about? Is the WWII closed down or not? Were there barricades set up or not? What I’m saying is that your post perfectly encapsulated the Tea Party belief in it own infallibility, regardless of what the facts may say. I’m hesitant now to to tell you what I saw at the WW2 Memorial, because you may be shocked, and I don’t want to ruin the surprise. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/106 "2013-10-07T18:17:36Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’m hesitant now to to tell you what I saw at the WW2 Memorial, because you may be shocked, and I don’t want to ruin the surprise. I want to know. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/107 "2013-10-07T18:18:57Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s called jurisdiction overlap. Do you think the park police handle all emergencies? In my area the base police write tickets for the roads outside the base as do the highway patrol and local police. No, of course not. But they handle the majority of them. Do you think the DC Police are ready to take over the duties of all of the Park Police? Who will pay for that? The Park Police don’t just do drive-bys, they are there all of the time. The National Mall gets about 25 million visitors a year. That provides a lot of opportunities for all sorts of police, and rescue needs. But once again, because you just aren’t getting it, part of the job of the Park Police is to protect those monument and memorials. Yes, they are just stone, but they are also symbols that mean a lot to many people. They are high visibility target for vandalism and mayhem. The Park Service has been charged by Congress with protecting and preserving those monuments forever - even when they are closed. Now you may think that is foolish. Fine. Write your representative in Congress and tell them that you don’t believe that the Monuments and Memorials on the National Mall are worthy of such protection. But as long as they are under the jurisdiction of the Park Service, that is the protection they will get - because that is what the enabling legislation that Congress passed tells the Park Service to do. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/108 "2013-10-07T18:20:11Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I’m hesitant now to to tell you what I saw at the WW2 Memorial, because you may be shocked, and I don’t want to ruin the surprise. Shocked? This is the Dope. Come on now. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/109 "2013-10-07T18:25:00Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > The Park Police don’t just do drive-bys… … they park in front of Lincoln and shoot ! Sorry. Carry on, I genuinely appreciate your perspective on things. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/110 "2013-10-07T18:29:39Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > N > > **But once again, because you just aren’t getting it, part of the job of the Park Police is to protect those monument and memorials. Yes, they are just stone, but they are also symbols that mean a lot to many people. They are high visibility target for vandalism and mayhem.** The Park Service has been charged by Congress with protecting and preserving those monuments forever - even when they are closed. > > Now you may think that is foolish. Fine. Write your representative in Congress and tell them that you don’t believe that the Monuments and Memorials on the National Mall are worthy of such protection. But as long as they are under the jurisdiction of the Park Service, that is the protection they will get - because that is what the enabling legislation that Congress passed tells the Park Service to do. Just as a reminder, [green paint](http://articles.latimes.com/2013/aug/03/nation/la-na-nn-national-monument-green-paint-vandalism-20130802). > [@](#): > > There was no estimated cleanup cost for the Lincoln Memorial, though the National Mall’s preservation crew has\*\* put in 300 work hours trying to remove paint from the statue’s porous white marble,\*\* said Carol Johnson, public affairs officer for the National Mall and Memorial Parks Division of the National Park Service. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/111 "2013-10-07T18:36:44Z")
> [@Donald\_Rump](#): > > I want to know. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Shocked? This is the Dope. Come on now. Ok, but hold on to your hats: Everything was fine. There were a handful of veterans (I assume) who appeared to be on an escorted tour. Several dozen tourists were outside the barriers taking pictures of the memorial. There was one police motorcycle with the radio on extra-loud, but no actual police officers in sight. In short, it was a a shocking and disgusting scene of what America has become under KKKomrade Barry O’Bama: people just taking things in stride, not seeking Second Amendment remedies for not being allowed quite so close to a (very gaudy, poorly designed, and thoroughly unfitting) memorial to one of the defining events of our history. Can you believe it? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/112 "2013-10-07T18:57:05Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Ok, but hold on to your hats: Everything was fine. There were a handful of veterans (I assume) who appeared to be on an escorted tour. Several dozen tourists were outside the barriers taking pictures of the memorial. There was one police motorcycle with the radio on extra-loud, but no actual police officers in sight. > > In short, it was a a shocking and disgusting scene of what America has become under KKKomrade Barry O’Bama: people just taking things in stride, not seeking Second Amendment remedies for not being allowed quite so close to a (very gaudy, poorly designed, and thoroughly unfitting) memorial to one of the defining events of our history. > > Can you believe it? Yes we can believe it. Anyone with common sense (apparently not Barry) knew a monument could be viewed by people walking by. Barricades were not required or desired. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/113 "2013-10-07T19:01:52Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > No, of course not. But they handle the majority of them. Do you think the DC Police are ready to take over the duties of all of the Park Police? Who will pay for that? pay for what exactly? > [@WreckingCrew](#): > > But once again, because you just aren’t getting it, part of the job of the Park Police is to protect those monument and memorials. Yes, they are just stone, but they are also symbols that mean a lot to many people. They are high visibility target for vandalism and mayhem. So you expect to see a lot of people vandalizing stuff when there are hundreds of visitors standing there with camera phones? Seems to me the best way to protect it is to leave it open to the public. Just like any other statue in the area. > [@WreckingCrew](#): > > Now you may think that is foolish. Fine. OK then. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/114 "2013-10-07T19:02:46Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Yes we can believe it. Anyone with common sense (apparently not Barry) knew a monument could be viewed by people walking by. Barricades were not required or desired. Why are you unwilling to accept that vandalism exists? This level of denial of reality and facts is absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/115 "2013-10-07T19:06:26Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Why are you unwilling to accept that vandalism exists? > > This level of denial of reality and facts is absurd. That is just a stupid thing to suggest I think given I just pointed out that a hundred people with cameras are about as good as you get for protecting something. Do you honestly believe someone would vandalize a monument under those conditions? What would encourage vandalism would be to bar the public from the area and then not guard it. Which is what was done. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/116 "2013-10-07T19:08:10Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Yes we can believe it. Anyone with common sense (apparently not Barry) knew a monument could be viewed by people walking by. Barricades were not required or desired. So, your theory is that Obama, in order to make the shut-down as painful as possible, decided to hide the WWII memorial _entirely from view_? And that he’s so dumb, he thought he could do this with a series of waist-high metal gates? Okay. Sure. That sounds like a completely reasonable hypothesis. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/117 "2013-10-07T19:08:20Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > That is just a stupid thing to suggest I think given I just pointed out that a hundred people with cameras are about as good as you get for protecting something. Do you honestly believe someone would vandalize a monument under those conditions? What would encourage vandalism would be to bar the public from the area and then not guard it. Which is what was done. What part of PAINT WAS RECENTLY SPLASHED ON THE LINCOLN MEMORIAL hasn’t been repeated enough for you? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/118 "2013-10-07T19:08:38Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > That is just a stupid thing to suggest I think given I just pointed out that a hundred people with cameras are about as good as you get for protecting something. Do you honestly believe someone would vandalize a monument under those conditions? What would encourage vandalism would be to bar the public from the area and then not guard it. Which is what was done. It’s still being guarded. You are amazing, bro. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/119 "2013-10-07T19:11:54Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > What part of PAINT WAS RECENTLY SPLASHED ON THE LINCOLN MEMORIAL hasn’t been repeated enough for you? The part where it was done at night when nobody was around. I’ll ask you again lest you missed me posting it twice before. Do you believe someone would vandalize the WWII memorial (or any) in view of a hundred people with cameras? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/120 "2013-10-07T19:17:44Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > It’s still being guarded. You are amazing, bro. I’m not your brother. Well you need to look at the title of the thread and explain your point. [This](https://www.google.com/search?q=WWII+memorial+barricades&client=firefox-a&hs=bCG&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=zu9SUp3kDI74qAGH6oDQAQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1138&bih=500&dpr=1.2#facrc=_&imgrc=udgwBbInS89xNM%3A%3BxBKOqUgkFJUXCM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Frt.com%252Ffiles%252Fnews%252F20%252F9e%252Fd0%252F00%252F000_was7960689.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Frt.com%252Fusa%252Fveterans-wwii-memorial-tourists-613%252F%3B690%3B388)is the controversy that generated the thread. Was there a lifting of the park closures? No. Does it make sense to keep this type of memorial open? Yes. I’ve explained it in simple terms that you can understand. Vandalism is less likely to occur with a hundred people with cameras than a couple of park rangers spread out over the area. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354.md?page=7)