# WWII Memorial shutdown controversy **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 4, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354 "2013-10-04T14:25:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/121 "2013-10-07T19:33:02Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Do you believe someone would vandalize the WWII memorial (or any) in view of a hundred people with cameras? Are you thinking some kind of Bansky-like vandalism operation that will involve stencils and spray cans? Or maybe Cristo will descend and cover the Lincoln Memorial in colorful fabrics? Unlikely in any respect, at any time. But you’re just living on a different planet if you don’t think that there are hundreds of other ways in which Park Service employees keep order at memorials, monuments, and those sorts of places. Crowds of people leave litter and other shit everywhere. Children jump into fountains. Skateboarders grind on railings. Knuckleheads try to climb things. People horseplay and annoy other patrons. People do petty acts of vandalism, like using sharpies and keys to leave their mark on things. Along with explaining the significance of things, park rangers keep an eye on the people who are mostly focused on the memorials, not what other people are doing. It’s a big park and police have a lot to do: dealing with first aid emergencies, kids getting lost, people drinking beer on the Mall, a occasional crazy person dousing himself in gasoline and setting himself on fire, speeding tickets, etc. It’s not their job to stand in as park rangers if the rangers aren’t allowed to come to work. > [@](#): > > Vandalism is less likely to occur with a hundred people with cameras **than a couple of park rangers spread out over the area**. Thanks for reminding me what little regard this argument has for facts. There are typically 300 park rangers working on the Mall, and currently there are seven. Honestly, if you’re going to make arguments like this, why don’t you attempt to learn even a little of which you speak? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/122 "2013-10-07T19:47:44Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > not particularly. It doesn’t change the fact that visiting a US monument is now temporarily a criminal act. So tell Boehner to do his goddamn job and allow a vote to reopen government, including the monuments. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/123 "2013-10-07T19:50:40Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > pay for what exactly? > > So you expect to see a lot of people vandalizing stuff when there are hundreds of visitors standing there with camera phones? Seems to me the best way to protect it is to leave it open to the public. Just like any other statue in the area. And this sums up your ignorance. These aren’t just like any other statues in the area. These monuments and memorials have been declared by the Congress of the United States of America to be nationally significant and requiring of a specific level of protection. This isn’t lobby art. You may not value these things; that is your choice, but other people do. The Mona Lisa is just paint and canvas, the people who view it and love it are what give it value. The Lincoln Memorial is just stone, but the people of America have instilled in it a value that makes it irreplaceable. Do I expect a lot of people vandalizing stuff when there are people with camera phones around - yup, I do. It happens all the time. Now I don’t want to ratchet up this discussion any further, but in this Post 9/11 world these monuments and memorials have been granted a much higher level of security than before. If you disagreed, I again welcome you to take it up with Congress and convince them to either remove the protection requirements that they placed on the National Mall, or to pay for the protection they mandate. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/124 "2013-10-07T20:06:43Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The part where it was done at night when nobody was around. I’ll ask you again lest you missed me posting it twice before. Do you believe someone would vandalize the WWII memorial (or any) in view of a hundred people with cameras? Yes- this is a very, very common occurrence. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/125 "2013-10-07T20:07:18Z")
In fact, there are people who would _prefer_ to vandalize a monument in full view of cameras and, if possible, reporters. Stealth is not necessarily a priority. ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/126 "2013-10-07T20:17:21Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > What part of PAINT WAS RECENTLY SPLASHED ON THE LINCOLN MEMORIAL hasn’t been repeated enough for you? Good thing the rangers were still working then so they could stop it from happening. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/127 "2013-10-07T20:20:03Z")
> [@yoyodyne](#): > > Good thing the rangers were still working then so they could stop it from happening. So we shouldn’t have police, because there are some crimes. Smart. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/128 "2013-10-07T21:25:34Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yes- this is a very, very common occurrence. Hell, a lot people are perfectly willing to film _themselves_ committing vandalism. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/129 "2013-10-07T21:45:53Z")
You know, it occurs to me that if Obama were personally ordering the more conspicuous monuments and social services shut down in order to embarrass the Republicans… there’d be some sort of memo to that effect. Has \*anything \*emerged which says that these aspects of the government were specifically shut down for political reasons? Because we \*definitely \*have the Republicans making political hay out of the shutdowns. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/130 "2013-10-07T22:12:32Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > Has \*anything \*emerged which says that these aspects of the government were specifically shut down for political reasons? Hehe, well the only evidence that I can find to have emerged (via Googling the term “barrycades”) is presented by [WorldNetDaily](http://www.wnd.com/2013/10/obamas-barrycades-cant-stop-wwii-vets/), the propaganda website, in an article entitled, “Obama Behind ‘Barrycades’ At WWII Monument.” And, by “evidence,” I mean that a GOP representative, Steven Palazzo, R-Miss, allegedly called the White House to ask if they could make an exception and open the memorial, and their liaison with the DOI said, “I’m sorry Steve, but I’m afraid we can’t do that.” And I think the \*reason \*why the DOI would have responded thus have been well examined in this thread (certainly to my satisfaction, anyway). It just tickles me to no end that these are the same people who were railing about Obama’s “lawlessness” when it came to delaying the employer mandate in Obamacare. They’re the same people who would be going absolutely ape shit if a group of poor black kids took a once-in-a-lifetime trip to Washington, DC, and Obama made an exception to open the Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial to them. It’s one of those things that would be laughable if it weren’t so sad; but it’s so sad that it actually goes full circle and becomes laughable again. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/131 "2013-10-07T22:25:42Z")
I propose that we call the vexed smile of pained humor a “chagrin”. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/132 "2013-10-07T22:28:19Z")
I guess there is, actually, one point that hasn’t been quite addressed in this thread (or if it was, I missed it): why did access to the memorial need to be restricted given that it is typically open [24 hours a day](http://web.archive.org/web/20121108195139/http://www.nps.gov/wwii/planyourvisit/hours.htm)? In that case, why should access during the day (with shutdown) be more restricted than access at nighttime (without shutdown)? why not put up a sign that says, “Sorry, no rangers available to answer questions, but you’re welcome to look around?” I think this is the part that people are having a hard time comprehending. My sense is that the memorial is closed, not because there’s no one there to regulate access per se, but because functions including maintenance (and possibly some measure of security that usually goes unnoticed) are now technically unfunded. Anything else to it than that? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/133 "2013-10-07T22:39:52Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Hell, a lot people are perfectly willing to film _themselves_ committing vandalism. Or attacking an SUV and uploading it to YouTube … dumb criminals, the best kind. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/134 "2013-10-07T23:00:44Z")
> [@Donald\_Rump](#): > > My sense is that the memorial is closed, not because there’s no one there to regulate access per se, but because functions including maintenance (and possibly some measure of security that usually goes unnoticed) are now technically unfunded. > > Anything else to it than that? Just to clarify, when it is open at night there are Park Police around to keep an eye on things but no Rangers for interpretation. But the determination is that with the limited amount of Law Enforcement staff on duty now, it is best to close off access to the monuments so it is easier for the remaining staff to watch over things and protect the resources. And also because there is no one around to pick up after all of you filthy tourists. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/135 "2013-10-07T23:05:10Z")
Just another factoid reminder: The park police who are short staffed and working are not getting paid and will not get paid until this shutdown is over. And yet, and yet, all the congress-critters who are responsible for this, wandering around the mall in their jogging outfits ARE getting paid. Does that make sense to anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/136 "2013-10-07T23:20:57Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > In fact, there are people who would _prefer_ to vandalize a monument in full view of cameras and, if possible, reporters. Stealth is not necessarily a priority. Personally I don’t think I would try to try to vandalize a memorial to WWII vets in front of a group of WWII vets. But then again I have 3 brain cells. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/137 "2013-10-07T23:24:55Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Personally I don’t think I would try to try to vandalize a memorial to WWII vets in front of a group of WWII vets. > But then again I have 3 brain cells. I dunno. I could probably take like 20 WWII vets in a fight. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/138 "2013-10-07T23:36:13Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I dunno. I could probably take like 20 WWII vets in a fight. 😃 Could you take all the bystanders and family members who would rip you to shreds for trying it? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/139 "2013-10-07T23:37:12Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Personally I don’t think I would try to try to vandalize a memorial to WWII vets in front of a group of WWII vets. > But then again I have 3 brain cells. Just remember that half of the American population is of less than average intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/140 "2013-10-07T23:55:01Z")
> [@sinjin](#): > > Just another factoid reminder: The park police who are short staffed and working are not getting paid and will not get paid until this shutdown is over. And yet, and yet, all the congress-critters who are responsible for this, wandering around the mall in their jogging outfits ARE getting paid. Does that make sense to anyone? Yes. Congressional salaries are not a matter of appropriated funds. The obligation to pay Congress is a matter of constitutional dimension. Their salary comes from holding the office, as opposed to hours worked or particular job done. A U.S. Representative is his own boss, in a sense: if he wishes to stay in his office watching porn for two years, no one (except two-thirds of the rest of the House) can remove him from office for doing so. U.S. Park Police are paid with appropriated funds, and there’s currently a lapse in appropriations. Even excepted employees, who continue to work, don’t get paid until the appropriations resume – although the government does incur an obligation to pay them. So it makes perfect sense. Your plaintive cry arises from some sort of sense of justice. Guess what, cowboy? Ain’t no justice hereabouts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354.md?page=8)