# WWII Memorial shutdown controversy **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 4, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354 "2013-10-04T14:25:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/141 "2013-10-08T00:05:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. Congressional salaries are not a matter of appropriated funds. The obligation to pay Congress is a matter of constitutional dimension. Their salary comes from holding the office, as opposed to hours worked or particular job done. A U.S. Representative is his own boss, in a sense: if he wishes to stay in his office watching porn for two years, no one (except two-thirds of the rest of the House) can remove him from office for doing so. > > U.S. Park Police are paid with appropriated funds, and there’s currently a lapse in appropriations. Even excepted employees, who continue to work, don’t get paid until the appropriations resume – although the government does incur an obligation to pay them. > > So it makes perfect sense. > > Your plaintive cry arises from some sort of sense of justice. > > Guess what, cowboy? Ain’t no justice hereabouts. Yes sheriff Bricker, I understand fully that Congress has to get paid due to the constitution. The reason for it even makes sense. But it doesn’t make it any easier for me to swallow the fact that about 400k people are now working without being paid even though they still have to pay their bills. And yuck, yuck about there’s no justice. I bet you are yucking all the way to the bank. I would call you an asshole here, but, GD and all that. I guess it’s ok for you to call me a cowboy though. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/142 "2013-10-08T00:15:46Z")
> [@sinjin](#): > > I would call you an asshole here, but, GD and all that. I guess it’s ok for you to call me a cowboy though. I’m not from out West, but yes, “asshole” is a worse insult than “cowboy.” Cowboy’s not an insult at all last I checked. Regardless, don’t do this again unless you’re in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/143 "2013-10-08T00:24:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > …Guess what, cowboy? Ain’t no justice hereabouts. We’re working on that. Could use your help if you’ve nothing better to do. ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/144 "2013-10-08T00:29:19Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’m not from out West, but yes, “asshole” is a worse insult than “cowboy.” Cowboy’s not an insult at all last I checked. Regardless, don’t do this again unless you’re in the Pit. Thank you for the clarification. I will now call those who I disrespect in GD “cowboy” 🆒 or better yet “cowgirl” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/145 "2013-10-08T00:37:31Z")
> [@sinjin](#): > > Thank you for the clarification. I will now call those who I disrespect in GD “cowboy” 🆒 > > or better yet “cowgirl” I hope you’re not announcing that you are going to resort to childish insults of the masculinity of other posters. I won’t look kindly on that. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/146 "2013-10-08T00:42:35Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I won’t look kindly on that. Not to second-guess your moderatin’, but that sentence really coulda ended with “, pardner.” ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/147 "2013-10-08T00:48:24Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I hope you’re not announcing that you are going to resort to childish insults of the masculinity of other posters. I won’t look kindly on that. It never occurred to me to question anyones masculinity. But since I’m a “girl” and it was ok for Bricker to call me a cowboy, why can I not call him a cowgirl? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/148 "2013-10-08T00:49:27Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Not to second-guess your moderatin’, but that sentence really coulda ended with “, pardner.” I swear to ever-flippin’ Jesus I was about to make that same comment. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/149 "2013-10-08T02:25:57Z")
So we are keeping essential services and shutting down non-essential. Ok I guess this website is non-essential [http://thelead.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/07/after-bad-press-and-confusion-justice-department-restores-federal-amber-alert-website/](http://thelead.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/07/after-bad-press-and-confusion-justice-department-restores-federal-amber-alert-website/) \* But this one we have to keep as essential [http://www.letsmove.gov](http://www.letsmove.gov) Seriously you kill the Amber alert website but keep let’s move up and running? I guess it’s OK to rape and murder kids, but not to let them get fat. At least they will leave a good looking corpse. \*the Amber alert website was restored have a huge public outcry. That does not answer either questions that need answering 1. Why was the Amber alert website considered non-essential and taken down? 2. Why was the First Lady’s pet project considered essential? **WTF?** ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/150 "2013-10-08T02:37:12Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Not to second-guess your moderatin’, but that sentence really coulda ended with “, pardner.” You know, this town ain’t big enough for the both of us, podnuh. We better find a bigger town… ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/151 "2013-10-08T02:43:30Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > So we are keeping essential services and shutting down non-essential. > Ok I guess this website is non-essential [http://thelead.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/07/after-bad-press-and-confusion-justice-department-restores-federal-amber-alert-website/](http://thelead.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/07/after-bad-press-and-confusion-justice-department-restores-federal-amber-alert-website/) \* > > But this one we have to keep as essential [http://www.letsmove.gov](http://www.letsmove.gov) > > Seriously you kill the Amber alert website but keep let’s move up and running? I guess it’s OK to rape and murder kids, but not to let them get fat. > At least they will leave a good looking corpse. > > \*the Amber alert website was restored have a huge public outcry. That does not answer either questions that need answering > > 1. Why was the Amber alert website considered non-essential and taken down? > 2. Why was the First Lady’s pet project considered essential? > **WTF?** It looks like letsmove has not been updated since Sept. 30. At least that’s the last blog entry. Is it under the White House budget or in some way the cost comes from a different source? The White House site is up It could be that sites that need constant updating/entering information that are shut down. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/152 "2013-10-08T02:45:31Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I don’t think you know what you are talking about. > > The IRS collects fees to handle private letter rulings. I can’t get anyone to answer the phones there. > > The SEC collects fees to handle no action letters. Noone is fucking answering the phones there either. > > The FCC gets fees from leasing the airwaves and noone is there either. > > For some reason, these agencies don’t get to treat this money like they own it. There are some exceptions but they are usually independent agencies that are not subject to the budget process like the federal reserve, I’m pretty sure the national parks service is not one of those independent agencies. > > BTW, this Randy Neugeberger seems like a real charmer. > > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/wp/2013/10/04/support-all-around-on-back-pay-for-furloughed-feds/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/wp/2013/10/04/support-all-around-on-back-pay-for-furloughed-feds/) Spoke too soon: [http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/07/republicans-to-block-quick-passage-of-back-pay-bill/](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/07/republicans-to-block-quick-passage-of-back-pay-bill/) “I think it’s very legitimate to take our time on this and hopefully Senator Reid will open it up for amendments and we can see how it ends up” I don’t know about you, but to me it sounds like they are trying to hold federal employee pay hostage to some sort of demands. I don’t know how to break it to the Republicans but Federal employees make horrible hostages. Obama has been pretty quick to throw them under the bus and I suspect he will do so again. > [@Terr](#): > > I know it’s a misattributed quote, and may have been invented in 1950s, but it doesn’t make it any less pithy: > > “A democracy … can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses…” You make it sound like a slippery slope from Obamacare to the collapse of democracy. In a civilized society, basic healthcare and education should not be distributed based on ability to pay. I don’t give a shit how you get there but we should get there. If you have some better way of doing it, you should have brought it up 3 years ago (there are better ways of doing it but you probably hate them even more than you hate Obamacare). > [@knel3030](#): > > Of course prison and law enforcement and military need to be run by a state, but some services like taking care of parks, while still national monuments, could be done as a private business. In exceptional cases where the government fails to fulfil its responsibility, then citizens have to find some way to keep things running through an emergency. You realize we have private prisons right? We have also privatized a lot of our military function to contractors. Why can’t the governor of Michigan use the emergency manager law to fire the police force and hire robocop to keep the streets clean? Did, you know we used to contract out tax collection? There are a LOT of things that the government can do better than the private sector exactly because they are not subject to market discipline. > [@WreckingCrew](#): > > Pardon me while I laugh. Nah, don’t pardon my laugh. If you look at the link below, you will see that the NPS budget for 2013 was $2.6 Billion. The estimate for fees to be collected in 2013 was $172 Million. If you think that people will pay 15 times as much for their current park experiences you are sadly mistaken. > > [http://www.doi.gov/budget/appropriations/2013/highlights/upload/BH071.pdf](http://www.doi.gov/budget/appropriations/2013/highlights/upload/BH071.pdf) > > The wiki page on the NPS shows a breakdown of the 2010 budget. Only 10.9% of the budget goes to visitor services - the kind of stuff people are willing to pay for. A huge amount of the NPS budget goes to the preservation, restoration, and protection of the resources within the parks. By law, National Parks are some of the most protect lands in the US. Even when the parks are open, there are many restrictions to the types of activities that can be done within the parks, because the underlying purpose of the National Parks isn’t so the public had a cool place to ride an ATV, it is to protect those places in perpetuity. > > [National Park Service - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Park_Service) I bet I could run the national parks profitably without any sort of federal subsidy. Of course the national parks would be clear gut and strip mined except for a 50 or 100 mile ring of forestland necessary to maintain camping and hunting income (lets face it a lot of the national parks never see a human footprint). Mount Rushmore would be sponsored by Mountain Dew and we would hold the X games there. I’d manage the oil and gas rights on the national parks to maximize my profits. etc. Or are you just talking about hiring outside contractors to man the parking lots? > [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > That’s not entirely fair. > > I’m pretty sure a good portion of the GOP assumed Obama would back down. > > And all the theatrics, including PR stunts involving shuttered memorials and parks and such are intended to force his hand. > > Rather than hoping for a shutdown, they were not only hoping for capitulation but assuming it was _fait accompli_ and didn’t have a Plan B in mind when Obama and Reid stood their ground. And all the blame shifting is a last ditch effort at saving what face they can. Well, can you blame them? Obama has conditioned them to expect appeasement and capitulation. My wife did the same thing with our son and now that she HAS to say no to some of the things he wants, he throws a fit and thinks life is unfair. Thats why you never pay danegeld. > [@Magiver](#): > > It’s called jurisdiction overlap. Do you think the park police handle all emergencies? In my area the base police write tickets for the roads outside the base as do the highway patrol and local police. You realize that the shutdown also freezes the DC budget, right? > [@Magiver](#): > > Yes we can believe it. Anyone with common sense (apparently not Barry) knew a monument could be viewed by people walking by. Barricades were not required or desired. So then whats the problem. People can still see it, they just can’t go inside. > [@Magiver](#): > > pay for what exactly? > > So you expect to see a lot of people vandalizing stuff when there are hundreds of visitors standing there with camera phones? Seems to me the best way to protect it is to leave it open to the public. Just like any other statue in the area. > > OK then. So now the visitors are policing the other visitors?:dubious: > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Not to second-guess your moderatin’, but that sentence really coulda ended with “, pardner.” I still think we post in pirate talk on talk like a pirate day. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/153 "2013-10-08T03:11:02Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Seriously you kill the Amber alert website but keep let’s move up and running? I guess it’s OK to rape and murder kids, but not to let them get fat. > **WTF?** Well, in its defense, only the website was down. According to the article, actual amber alerts were still active. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/154 "2013-10-08T03:43:53Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > So we are keeping essential services and shutting down non-essential. > Ok I guess this website is non-essential [http://thelead.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/07/after-bad-press-and-confusion-justice-department-restores-federal-amber-alert-website/](http://thelead.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/07/after-bad-press-and-confusion-justice-department-restores-federal-amber-alert-website/) \* > > But this one we have to keep as essential [http://www.letsmove.gov](http://www.letsmove.gov) > > Seriously you kill the Amber alert website but keep let’s move up and running? I guess it’s OK to rape and murder kids, but not to let them get fat. > At least they will leave a good looking corpse. > > \*the Amber alert website was restored have a huge public outcry. That does not answer either questions that need answering > > 1. Why was the Amber alert website considered non-essential and taken down? > 2. Why was the First Lady’s pet project considered essential? > **WTF?** You’re wrong: > **[Tweets and bloggers say Obama used government shutdown to close Amber Alert...](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2013/oct/07/tweets/tweets-and-bloggers-say-obama-used-shutdown-close-/)** > > The government shutdown has cranked up the volume on the blame game of who is causing the most misery for whom. The late The Amber Alert informational page at the DOJ was shut down because all the DOJ websites were shut down so they couldn’t be hacked while the staff was away. The Amber Alert system was still functional. Now think hard about this, do you really think that the Let’s Move site was seen as so essential it was kept, or is it that it’s so inconsequential that they didn’t think to turn it off? Think about that before you answer, okay? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/155 "2013-10-08T04:02:55Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Seriously you kill the Amber alert website but keep let’s move up and running? > [@Captain Amazing](#): > > Well, in its defense, only the website was down. According to the article, actual amber alerts were still active > [@Lobohan](#): > > You’re wrong: > > [PolitiFact | Tweets and bloggers say Obama used government shutdown to close Amber Alert system](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/oct/07/tweets/tweets-and-bloggers-say-obama-used-shutdown-close-/) > > The Amber Alert informational page at the DOJ was shut down because all the DOJ websites were shut down so they couldn’t be hacked while the staff was away. > \*\* > The Amber Alert system was still functional. \*\* [It seems this applies](http://xkcd.com/932/) in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/156 "2013-10-08T04:15:25Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You’re wrong: > > [PolitiFact | Tweets and bloggers say Obama used government shutdown to close Amber Alert system](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/oct/07/tweets/tweets-and-bloggers-say-obama-used-shutdown-close-/) > > The Amber Alert informational page at the DOJ was shut down because all the DOJ websites were shut down so they couldn’t be hacked while the staff was away. > > The Amber Alert system was still functional. > > Now think hard about this, do you really think that the Let’s Move site was seen as so essential it was kept, or is it that it’s so inconsequential that they didn’t think to turn it off? > > Think about that before you answer, okay? I never said or implied that the POTUS had a personal hand in shut down of the DOJs AA website, which is what you are implying with your link. As far as the importance of that website goes let’s think about this for about 2 seconds. A person sees something that might be a subject of an AA alert. They are not sure enough to call the cops, but something pinged their radar. Where do they get more info? Maybe you would drive down the nearest highway to look at lighted signs, but speaking for myself I would go online to the website. So IMHO that website saves lives. As far as let’s move goes they shut down every other website to > [@](#): > > were shut down so they couldn’t be hacked while the staff was away So is the lets move website on some super special hack proof server? Furthermore what is preventing someone from hacking the we are shut down pages? Are they also on that same hack proof server? Unless you can prove the existence of that hack proof server your argument falls apart. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/157 "2013-10-08T04:23:35Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > I never said or implied that the POTUS had a personal hand in shut down of the DOJs AA website, which is what you are implying with your link. > As far as the importance of that website goes let’s think about this for about 2 seconds. > A person sees something that might be a subject of an AA alert. They are not sure enough to call the cops, but something pinged their radar. Where do they get more info? [Ahem](http://lmgtfy.com/?q=amber+alert+hawaii) > [@](#): > > Maybe you would drive down the nearest highway to look at lighted signs, but speaking for myself I would go online to the website. > So IMHO that website saves lives. > As far as let’s move goes they shut down every other website to > So is the lets move website on some super special hack proof server? > Furthermore what is preventing someone from hacking the we are shut down pages? Are they also on that same hack proof server? > Unless you can prove the existence of that hack proof server your argument falls apart. No it doesn’t. Because I took a moment to read before spewing anger. They pulled the DOJ information page down. The Amber Alert system and websites still exist, and can be accessed. The “Hack Proof Servers” are behind the firewall. This would be less embarrassing for you if you actually read the cite. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/158 "2013-10-08T04:46:03Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > In fact, there are people who would _prefer_ to vandalize a monument in full view of cameras and, if possible, reporters. Stealth is not necessarily a priority. Uh huh. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/159 "2013-10-08T05:41:42Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Uh huh. So, nothing in the universe can sway your opinion, no matter how logical or how many facts are thrown your way? Why even come here then? ---
**Author:** ![dba\_Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@dba\_Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dba_Fred)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2013, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354/160 "2013-10-08T13:26:07Z")
Some .gov websites get you this: National Parks Service while others get you this: [HealthCare](https://www.healthcare.gov/) Some .gov websites are more equal than others. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-memorial-shutdown-controversy/670354.md?page=9)