# WWII planes that have no surviving examples **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 3, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737 "2013-04-03T15:46:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2013, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/41 "2013-04-05T01:02:44Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Looks like at least [one](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/FIAT_G-55_Centauro_%281%29.jpg) [Fiat G-55 Centauro](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_G.55) has survived as well. The Italians may not have been world-beaters in WW II, but they certainly made good-looking fighter planes. Good acrobatic aircraft, too. Changing sides. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2013, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/42 "2013-04-05T01:13:20Z")
How hard would it be to build one? Like, suppose you had a lot of money, and wanted to construct a working P-43, or an Me-323, one as close in design to the original as could possibly be built. Could it be done? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2013, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/43 "2013-04-05T01:14:52Z")
Of course. With **enough** money you could recreate the Pyramids! ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2013, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/44 "2013-04-05T01:31:41Z")
Replica aircraft as sophisticated as the [Fokker Trimotor](http://www.aero-news.net/getmorefromann.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=51531306-7127-41e4-b2b6-963459bc2751) and [Sikorsky S-38 flying boat](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_S-38) have been built. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2013, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/45 "2013-04-05T01:50:18Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > and [Sikorsky S-38 flying boat](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_S-38) have been built. You couldn’t get me into that if you were taking me to receive the Publisher’s Clearing House winnings. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2013, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/46 "2013-04-05T02:03:52Z")
> [@echo7tango](#): > > I was wondering if there are any surviving Junkers Ju-87 Stuka divebombers. [Wikipedia’s page says there are two: one in Chicago and one in London](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_87#Survivors) (of all places!). > > Wouldn’t it be very cool to see (and hear) one flying? I always liked the Stuka, since building a model as a kid. I know they did badly when opposed by fighters, but it is one cool-looking plane. Any WWII aviation junkie should run, not walk, to Dayton, Ohio: [National Museum of the United States Air Force - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USAFM) ---
**Author:** ![piston\_broke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/278dde/32.png) [@piston\_broke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/piston_broke)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2013, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/47 "2013-04-05T02:28:02Z")
The Short Stirling bomber. Overshadowed by the Lancaster. And quite rightly tbh - weak engines, tailfin and undercarriage are not considered design features for a heavy bomber. In saying that, they look fantastic. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2013, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/48 "2013-04-05T02:38:29Z")
I looked at the stats on the common Luftwafte planes… from 6000, they are down to 0.05% surviving… like 2 to 5. Basically anything the Luftwafte wasn’t making at the end of the war would be lost due to the war effort… anything redundant they scrapped to make something new. Survivors were those that flew out to surrender ! But also look at the Dutch airforce and factories. started the war with 100’s of Fokker and busy gearing up for making 1000. … eg No surivivng Fokker DI’s. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2013, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/49 "2013-04-05T03:32:48Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Does this [count](http://www.daveswarbirds.com/usplanes/photos/flapjack2.jpg) ? > The flying pancake. (Never made production.) > > Edit bb code. [It exists](http://www.flightmuseum.com/exhibits/aircraft-3/aircraft-3/). Not sure if this example actually flew, or was just a ground prototype, but you can get really close to it in Dallas. Its smell of old leather and oil is something that’s indescribable. In addition to the B&V flying boats already mentioned, I would have loved to have seen one of [these.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_390) ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2013, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/50 "2013-04-05T11:44:38Z")
> [@David\_H\_Singanas](#): > > There was a post in USENET about a Lancaster bomber parked in a hanger > in New Zealand. The post stated the bomber was in mint condition. > > AFAIK , USENET was purchased by Google Groups and consequently dismantled. That would be > **[A Lancaster in New Zealand](https://groups.google.com/g/alt.history.british/c/FI-v-1-A7gM/m/eD9_soP8VlcJ)** The USENET archive was acquired by google. USENET was peer-to-peer. For me, USENET got sick when my ISP stopped supporting it. and died when [the development software I used] was no longer supported on USENET. ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2013, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/51 "2013-04-05T12:31:46Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > They had one of those at RAF Colerne in the 1970s, I saw it there. Very strange plane, like an oversized Easter Egg with stubby wings and a smallish fin. That collection was long since broken up (as in, the planes were sent elsewhere), I can’t remember whether Duxford has a Komet now. There is a Komet in the Science Museum in London but I don’t thing the IWM has one at Duxford. > [@Poysyn](#): > > Shameless hijack and brag - I got to board one of the only surviving (still flying) Lancaster Bombers (The Mynarski one) a few years ago. It was VERY cool 🙂 If we are in to shameless bragging 😃 , many years ago I sat at the controls of _City of Lincoln_, the still flying Lancaster that is part of the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight. This was when it was based at RAF Waddington in the 60s - also got to sit in one of the 50 Squadron [Vulcans](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Vulcan)😃 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2013, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/52 "2013-04-05T14:37:38Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I always liked the Stuka, since building a model as a kid. I know they did badly when opposed by fighters, but it is one cool-looking plane. > > Any WWII aviation junkie should run, not walk, to Dayton, Ohio: [National Museum of the United States Air Force - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USAFM) Me too, I built a Stuka bomber as a kid. And, the USAF museum at Wright-Patterson AFB is great. I haven’t been there in many years. I’ll be driving south to San Diego this weekend. I will try to swing by [Planes of Fame in Chino, CA](http://planesoffame.org/index.php?page=admission-hours-and-directions) if there’s time on Sunday. Have never been there before but it looks like they have a good collection. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2013, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/53 "2013-04-05T14:45:44Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > How hard would it be to build one? > > Like, suppose you had a lot of money, and wanted to construct a working P-43, or an Me-323, one as close in design to the original as could possibly be built. Could it be done? Depends if the original design drawings and specifications are still available. Even then, it might be difficult or impossible. For instance, say the specs call for a certain engine and the design show how that engine is integrated into the airframe. But you now have to go looking for the original engine design, and the designs of any other components that aren’t originally designed along with the airframe. If you can’t find them, the task would be more like sculpting a model from photos. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/54 "2013-04-08T06:55:12Z")
I visited [Planes of Fame Air Museum](http://planesoffame.org/). It’s definitely worth it. I wanted to have a quick 1- or 2-hr visit, but it was so good I ended up staying for 4.5 hours there. A treat was seeing my first flying P-38. [Of the nine surviving airworthy P-38s in the US, two are in Chino, CA.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_surviving_Lockheed_P-38_Lightnings#Survivors) ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/55 "2013-04-08T07:47:04Z")
There were a lot of small-production marks of aircraft based on more successful designs, basically to try out new design ideas or what not. As an example: [A list of variants of the B-17 Flying Fortress](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_B-17_Flying_Fortress_variants). Of special note is the [YB-40](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YB-40_Flying_Fortress), an escort gunship designed expressly to engage enemy aircraft to protect the bombers. It suffered from the not insignificant design flaw of being unable to maintain formation with the bombers due to being too slow and heavy (bombers carry a lot of weight, sure, but they _lose_ most of it halfway through the flight, the YB-40, being weighed down with lots of guns, ammo, and armor, could not perform the same trick). Ironically, this made them vulnerable to enemy fighters because they lacked the herd protection of the bomber formation. None of the YB-40s were kept around after the war, being torn up and smelted. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/56 "2013-04-08T13:08:42Z")
There’s an Me-163 Komet at the Australian War Memorial in Canberra (along with a Lancaster bomber, too!). And not quite WWII, but one of the only two Supermarine S6B racing floatplanes built is in the Science Museum in London, too. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/57 "2013-04-08T22:02:11Z")
There is a V-1 rocket on display at the Kansas Cosmosphere. Interestingly enough, it actually flew on a mission and still lived to retire in Kansas. Seems that part of the fusing mechanism that would have set off the warhead failed due to what they believe was sabotage in manufacturing. That is to say, someone installed it wrong on purpose. Thought it was pretty interesting that lives were saved and a museum exhibit existed because some person we’ll never know about chose to do that. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/58 "2013-04-08T22:08:15Z")
The Me-163 at the USAF Museum in Dayton was found during restoration to have been sabotaged too. Wiki: “During the aircraft’s restoration in Canada it was discovered that the aircraft had been assembled by French “forced labourers” who had deliberately sabotaged it by placing stones between the rocket’s fuel tanks and its supporting straps. There are also indications that the wing was assembled with contaminated glue. Patriotic French writing was found inside the fuselage.” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/59 "2013-04-08T22:25:29Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > Thought it was pretty interesting that lives were saved and a museum exhibit existed because some person we’ll never know about chose to do that. Someone who probably was starved or worked to death. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/60 "2013-04-09T02:12:02Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The Me-163 at the USAF Museum in Dayton was found during restoration to have been sabotaged too. Wiki: “During the aircraft’s restoration in Canada it was discovered that the aircraft had been assembled by French “forced labourers” who had deliberately sabotaged it by placing stones between the rocket’s fuel tanks and its supporting straps. There are also indications that the wing was assembled with contaminated glue. Patriotic French writing was found inside the fuselage.” _Vive le Republique!_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737.md?page=4)