# WWII planes that have no surviving examples **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 3, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737 "2013-04-03T15:46:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/61 "2013-04-09T02:18:40Z")
Actually, upon [further research](http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=508), it said “_Manufacture Ferme_” and “_Mon coeur est en chomage_” (“Plant Closed” and “My heart is not under occupation”). ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/62 "2013-04-09T02:43:55Z")
Some great shots, recently sent to me by a friend, of the 2009 Edwards AFB open house - many historic and contemporary warplanes: [http://home.comcast.net/~bzee1a/Edwards09/Edwards09.html](http://home.comcast.net/~bzee1a/Edwards09/Edwards09.html) ---
**Author:** ![gunnergoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e95f7d/32.png) [@gunnergoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gunnergoz)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/63 "2013-04-09T04:17:59Z")
I’m feeling too lazy to Google. Do any P-61 Black Widows survive? I’m going to guess there may be one at Wright-Patterson, if anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/64 "2013-04-09T04:24:31Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > How successful was the komet as an interceptor? From the wiki “It is the only rocket-powered fighter aircraft ever to have been operational” A long and unsuccessful development summarized in one short sentence. ---
**Author:** ![audit1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed8c4c/32.png) [@audit1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/audit1)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/65 "2013-04-09T11:42:54Z")
> [@gunnergoz](#): > > I’m feeling too lazy to Google. Do any P-61 Black Widows survive? I’m going to guess there may be one at Wright-Patterson, if anywhere. There are four p-61 black widows Beijing China US Airforce Museum Wright patterson Udvar hazy center DUlles AIrport Smithsonian Mid Atantic Aviation Museum Reading PA. This one was pulled out of the jungle and is on a very long term restoration to fly. ---
**Author:** ![shaunmike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@shaunmike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shaunmike)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/66 "2013-04-09T11:44:29Z")
WWII planes that have no surviving examples I am referring specifically to planes that saw combat in WWII, but none exist anymore, not even non-flying examples in a museum. One is the Douglas Devastator torpedo bomber. After more than half of all of those in existence were shot down at Midway, they were taken out of combat and the rest were scrapped in 1944. Wiki notes 4 “survivors”, all of these are underwater after ditching – AFAIK none have been recovered for restoration. In my mind they don’t count, nor would wreckage out in a jungle somewhere. I’m sure there are plenty of others but I don’t know which they are. Wiki also says there is one Fairey Barracuda (another torpedo bomber) currently being rebuilt out of two wrecks, so if that’s correct it’s another example that will soon be rectified. ---
**Author:** ![Dahu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dahu/32/3416_2.png) [@Dahu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dahu)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/67 "2013-05-03T18:28:19Z")
> [@Mk\_VII](#): > > Things which were novel attracted the attention of Allied scientists and ensured that (mostly) the type was passed to the Smithsonian (or someone) once its value was exhausted. Types which had been made earlier in the war, of which a great deal was already known, were of less interest. Dornier 17/217s, Hampdens or Whitleys, Fairey Battles, Blenheims (though some have been reconstructed out of Canadian Bolingbrokes in recent years) the list is endless. As late as 1949 a number of unique types were scrapped for want of storage space when the Air Historical Branch was instructed to severely prune its holdings for financial reasons. There might not turn out to be much left of it, but there’s a Dornier 17 at the bottom of the English channel. > **[Salvaging a rare WWII plane from the sea](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22380915)** > > Work begins to raise a unique World War II aircraft from the floor of the English Channel just off the Kent coast, the start of a two-year restoration project. Nick Higham reports. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/68 "2013-05-03T19:40:41Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > There is a V-1 rocket on display at the Kansas Cosmosphere. Interestingly enough, it actually flew on a mission and still lived to retire in Kansas. The V-1 wasn’t a rocket but an early cruise missile powered by a pulse-jet engine. I just had a look at the Cosmosphere website and it does sloppily talk about “V-1 and V-2 rockets” but only the latter was a rocket (a remarkable one for its time, albeit a huge waste of money). ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/69 "2013-05-03T19:44:34Z")
I’m not sure if you’d count it, but there are multiple examples of the Republic JB-1 “Loon” in US museums. It was a direct copy of the V-1, reportedly even including some captured German parts, which would have been used to soften up Japan for the Operation Olympic/Coronet invasions. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2013, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/70 "2013-05-03T19:56:36Z")
> [@echo7tango](#): > > I visited [Planes of Fame Air Museum](http://planesoffame.org/). It’s definitely worth it. I wanted to have a quick 1- or 2-hr visit, but it was so good I ended up staying for 4.5 hours there. A treat was seeing my first flying P-38. [Of the nine surviving airworthy P-38s in the US, two are in Chino, CA.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_surviving_Lockheed_P-38_Lightnings#Survivors) Another fun one is the Castle Air Museum [http://www.castleairmuseum.org/](http://www.castleairmuseum.org/) They are actualy having “open cockpit day” where they let you up a little closer and let you into crew spaces of many of the larger planes. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2013, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/71 "2013-05-04T08:56:14Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > Another fun one is the Castle Air Museum > > [http://www.castleairmuseum.org/](http://www.castleairmuseum.org/) > > They are actualy having “open cockpit day” where they let you up a little closer and let you into crew spaces of many of the larger planes. Thanks, I’ve been there. My daughter went to UC Merced which is nearby. They have a B-36 there and I was able to sneak my car into the field where it was, park beneath its wing, and take a picture of that. I thought that was a pretty ccol picture. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2013, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/72 "2013-05-04T09:33:11Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I’m not sure if you’d count it, but there are multiple examples of the Republic JB-1 “Loon” in US museums. It was a direct copy of the V-1, reportedly even including some captured German parts, which would have been used to soften up Japan for the Operation Olympic/Coronet invasions. jb-2 = v1 Wikipedia tells me the JB-1 is the Northrop JB-1 “Bat” , a surface-to-surface cruise missile ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/73 "2013-06-16T04:11:55Z")
They just raised a Do-17 bomber from the English Channel: [http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/11/world/europe/wwii-german-bomber-raised/index.html?hpt=hp\_c3](http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/11/world/europe/wwii-german-bomber-raised/index.html?hpt=hp_c3) ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/74 "2013-06-16T07:58:16Z")
I live just a couple of miles inland from where the Dornier was raised last week and with good binoculars you could see the rig clearly. Yesterday we also had the last remaining Vulcan bomber fly over our house (very low…very loud and the kids we thrilled by it) We are also off to the Manston Airshow next weekend, 5 minutes up the road with lots of piston-powered noisy goodness, hurrah! ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/75 "2013-06-16T11:06:24Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > They just raised a Do-17 bomber from the English Channel: [http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/11/world/europe/wwii-german-bomber-raised/index.html?hpt=hp\_c3](http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/11/world/europe/wwii-german-bomber-raised/index.html?hpt=hp_c3) You think it past the test by a. being lifted into the air by crane, b. looking a bit like an aircraft Its passing the test of “being able to hold its own weight”. but its weight is reduced quite a lot by corrosion. If there was a single solid airframe left, the experts would have called this pile of oxide ‘destroyed wreckage’ !, ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/76 "2013-06-16T12:29:14Z")
It looks rather grim. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/77 "2013-06-16T14:00:22Z")
> [@gunnergoz](#): > > I’m feeling too lazy to Google. Do any P-61 Black Widows survive? I’m going to guess there may be one at Wright-Patterson, if anywhere. > [@audit1](#): > > There are four p-61 black widows > > Beijing China > > US Airforce Museum Wright patterson > > Udvar hazy center DUlles AIrport Smithsonian > > Mid Atantic Aviation Museum Reading PA. This one was pulled out of the jungle and is on a very long term restoration to fly. Last weekend I went to the annual WWII weekend in Reading. I recommend it to anyone interested in warbirds. Drop a bit of cash and you can go for a ride in one. They had the P-61 on display. It’s not nearly ready to fly but they put a lot of work into it and it looks great so far. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2013, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/78 "2013-06-21T16:15:29Z")
Stalking the world’s biggest planes: [http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/21/travel/plane-spotting-big-aircraft/index.html?hpt=hp\_c2](http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/21/travel/plane-spotting-big-aircraft/index.html?hpt=hp_c2) ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/79 "2013-06-23T14:24:42Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Actually, upon [further research](http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=508), it said “_Manufacture Ferme_” and “_Mon coeur est en chomage_” (“Plant Closed” and “My heart is not under occupation”). _Mon coeur est en chômage_ does not mean “my heart is not under occupation,” it means “my heart is unemployed.” \ ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737/80 "2013-06-23T14:58:03Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > The V-1 wasn’t a rocket but an early cruise missile powered by a pulse-jet engine. I just had a look at the Cosmosphere website and it does sloppily talk about “V-1 and V-2 rockets” but only the latter was a rocket (a remarkable one for its time, albeit a huge waste of money). The website may be sloppy (in that respect), but the actual exhibit is not at all. I was just there last week, and all the texts accompanying all the pieces (including the V-1 and V-2) are, AFAICT, complete and accurate. One of the most informative museums I can recall enjoying, in fact. And, they do a good job of putting the aerospace history in its larger context (various phases of the Cold War, etc.) – something especially important for teaching kids these days for whom the Berlin Wall is as ancient as the Great Wall of China. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-planes-that-have-no-surviving-examples/654737.md?page=5)