# WWII Submarine Crew Picture **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 23, 2011, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-submarine-crew-picture/572343 "2011-02-23T14:35:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Petek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/petek/32/1590_2.png) [@Petek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Petek)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-submarine-crew-picture/572343/1 "2011-02-23T14:35:07Z")
[This picture](http://www.goatlocker.org/gurnard/254crew.jpg) shows the crew of a submarine (somewhere in the Pacific) from c. 1943. At the bottom of the picture we see a row of “flags.” What do these flags represent? In particular, what is the meaning of the Skull and Crossbones flag? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-submarine-crew-picture/572343/2 "2011-02-23T14:42:36Z")
The Japanese flags represent ships sunk on that particular war patrol – the two rising sun flags would represent warships, the national flags (the flag typically called the “meatball” by Americans during the war) represent merchant ships. Not sure about the skull-and-crossbones; that might just be a flag the crew likes to fly, or it could have significance I’m unaware of. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-submarine-crew-picture/572343/3 "2011-02-23T14:47:14Z")
Those would be kill flags. From Wiki: > [@](#): > > Following the introduction of submarines in several navies, Admiral Sir Arthur Wilson, the Controller of the Royal Navy stated that submarines were “underhand, unfair, and damned un-English”, and that he would convince the British Admiralty to have the crews of enemy submarines captured during wartime hanged as pirates.[40] > > In September 1914, the British submarine HMS E9 successfully torpedoed the German criuser SMS Hela.[41] Remembering Wilson’s statements, commanding officer Max Horton instructed his sailors to manufacture a Jolly Roger, which was flown from the submarine as she entered port. > > … > > During the war, British submarines were entitled to fly the Jolly Roger on the day of their return from a successful patrol: it would be hoisted as the boat passed the boom net, and remain raised until sunset.[44] Damn! Scooped by a sailboat! Preparing to fire Mrs. Nesbitt… ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-submarine-crew-picture/572343/4 "2011-02-23T14:48:03Z")
I think the skull and crossbones was just the crew being puckish. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-submarine-crew-picture/572343/5 "2011-02-23T14:49:10Z")
Wikipedia\* recounts [a tale](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jolly_Roger#By_submarines)… > [@](#): > > Following the introduction of submarines in several navies, Admiral Sir Arthur Wilson, the Controller of the Royal Navy stated that submarines were “underhand, unfair, and damned un-English”, and that he would convince the British Admiralty to have the crews of enemy submarines captured during wartime hanged as pirates. In September 1914, the British submarine HMS E9 successfully torpedoed the German criuser SMS Hela. Remembering Wilson’s statements, commanding officer Max Horton instructed his sailors to manufacture a Jolly Roger, which was flown from the submarine as she entered port. Apparently the Jolly Roger caught on–in later wars & with other nations. - I know, I know. But there are cites & this isn’t a really controversial topic–like How Davey Crockett Died. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-submarine-crew-picture/572343/6 "2011-02-23T14:51:41Z")
Standing by to feed the cat… ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-submarine-crew-picture/572343/7 "2011-02-23T15:58:01Z")
No cite - just a FWIW ---------- an uncle had a picture like that for/from the Atlantic showing standard swastika flags for freighters, Naval flags for warships and two Jolly Rogers. When I asked about them he said they were for surface raiders they had sunk. If he was still alive I’d grill him over it but like many from that war he’s long gone. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-submarine-crew-picture/572343/8 "2011-02-23T16:45:03Z")
It’s just a thing with submariners, and over time it’s really caught on: [![](https://www.pirates-privateers.com/img/flag-english-submarine-gf.jpg) ](https://www.pirates-privateers.com/img/flag-english-submarine-gf.jpg) [http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/3352132.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=45B0EB3381F7834D2B46EE73B8CF014DF807A47C85E2B6A811D40A26B3E28636](http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/3352132.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=45B0EB3381F7834D2B46EE73B8CF014DF807A47C85E2B6A811D40A26B3E28636) [![](https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3259/2877500638_2385bc048c.jpg?v=0) ](https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3259/2877500638_2385bc048c.jpg?v=0) [http://s3.amazonaws.com/readers/2011/02/01/foto203\_1.jpg](http://s3.amazonaws.com/readers/2011/02/01/foto203_1.jpg) [http://s3.amazonaws.com/readers/2011/02/01/foto201\_1.jpg](http://s3.amazonaws.com/readers/2011/02/01/foto201_1.jpg) [http://www.war44.com/misc/images/4/H\_M\_Submarine\_Umbra.jpg](http://www.war44.com/misc/images/4/H_M_Submarine_Umbra.jpg) And not just subs, either!: [Militaryphotos.net](http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=54660&stc=1&d=1217447048) ---
**Author:** ![Petek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/petek/32/1590_2.png) [@Petek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Petek)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-submarine-crew-picture/572343/9 "2011-02-24T02:26:14Z")
Thanks for all the useful and informative replies. My family is interested in this photo because one of the sailors is my dad! ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-submarine-crew-picture/572343/10 "2011-02-24T03:41:09Z")
It’s a mixed race crew. I didn’t know subs did that. Given attitudes of the time, were they likely mess crew? ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-submarine-crew-picture/572343/11 "2011-02-24T07:08:40Z")
> [@Patch](#): > > It’s a mixed race crew. I didn’t know subs did that. Given attitudes of the time, were they likely mess crew? Quite possibly officers’ stewards, who were usually from Guam or the Philippines. Being that it’s a sub, they almost certainly had other duties as well. More information on the boat in question [here](http://www.goatlocker.org/gurnard/ss254.htm). ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-submarine-crew-picture/572343/12 "2011-02-24T16:23:40Z")
Submariners would also fly or show other things on entering port, to show a succesfull patrol. This is sort of a “pride in unit & accomplishments”, and a morale boosting thing. Here’s a photo of the USS Wahoo, with a broom attached to the shears (indicating a “clean sweep”): [File:Sail of USS Wahoo (SS-238) at Pearl Harbor with broom, in February 1943.jpg - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WahooBroom.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-submarine-crew-picture/572343/13 "2011-02-24T16:52:59Z")
Put the kettle on!