# WWII US Infantry Weapons **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 24, 2011, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972 "2011-05-24T02:08:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/41 "2011-05-26T06:25:48Z")
> [@](#): > > (that’s why they’re called Tommy guns - because the Tommies used them) pounce, gun wonks! ---
**Author:** ![kombatminipig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5ac83/32.png) [@kombatminipig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kombatminipig)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/42 "2011-05-26T07:20:56Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > pounce, gun wonks! Naw, it’s too easy. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/43 "2011-05-26T08:04:30Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Did they manufacture .45 ACP ammo in Britain or was it, too imported on convoys being sunk by U-boats? I have no idea. I would WAG the latter, else the Sten would presumably have used .45 as well if only to take advantage of existing munitions factories and stockpiles. That being said, since the Sten was not only designed for British use but also with air drops on partisans and resistance members across Europe in mind, the choice to use the ubiquitous 9mm Parabellum bullet could have justified itself either way. Every European military used 9x19mm to some extent or could raid some off the Germans and Italians in the worst case scenario, but .45 ACP wasn’t that widespread if I’m not mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![slaphead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/44 "2011-05-26T11:41:50Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > That being said, since the Sten was not only designed for British use but also with air drops on partisans and resistance members across Europe in mind, the choice to use the ubiquitous 9mm Parabellum bullet could have justified itself either way. Every European military used 9x19mm to some extent or could raid some off the Germans and Italians in the worst case scenario, but .45 ACP wasn’t that widespread if I’m not mistaken. The 9mm Parabellum was also one of the few pistol rounds which was proven to work reliably in automatic weapons, and the Brits were already manufacturing/issuing it because of their use of the Lanchester SMG, which was an exact copy of the German MP28. ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/45 "2011-05-26T12:29:47Z")
One time I was watching a WWII film with my father (as a WWII vet he hated to watch WWII films - he thought they were all stupidly done), and it showed a grunt wearing a shoulder holster rig. He said, “He must have owned a Samurai sword.” I questioned this and he explained that many soldiers and marines would trade the sword (often made by Seebees) to navy and marine fliers for the pistols and holsters issued to them. At least in the Pacific theater of operations combat units were not exactly picky about ordinance of the ground pounders. My father also said that another group issued the shoulder holsters rigs were official jeep drivers. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/46 "2011-05-26T13:02:11Z")
> [@mac\_bolan00](#): > > paratroopers complained the BAR didn’t provide enough firepower for its weight. this doesn’t really make much sense since the obvious comparison is with the M1919 light machine gun that’s belt-fed, fires from a tripod and weighs 41 pounds total. a BAR weighs only 18 pounds. > > but as i mentioned earlier, they preferred the 1919 which they can fire as soon as they hit the ground. > > just focusing on small arms, do you guys know that small arms from 1900 all the way to desert storm accounted for only 5% of total war casualties? not much sense in arguing which weapon is better. The BAR had some significant problems. Its greatest failing is that it does not have a quick-detach barrel. Guns like the Bren could be fired at a much higher rate with the barrels switched out for cooling. If an individual barrel burned out, it could be discarded and replaced easily in the field. A burned up BAR had to be repaired at the armory level. A second failing lay in the magazines. BAR magazines had notoriously weak springs and SOP was that they were to be loaded immediately before use. Letting them remain loaded for any length of time caused the springs to take a set and resulted in feed problems. The BAR was also known to have extractor problems, which while it could be replaced by the user, wasn’t something you wanted to be doing in combat. There are other criticisms, too. The BAR was “too accurate” which is to say that it didn’t disperse its shots and give a beaten zone as is considered desirable in machine guns. Its bottom-feeding magazine limited capacity to 20 rounds, as longer magazines would have monopoded when fired from prone. The BAR wasn’t great. We used it because we had it on hand along with tooling to produce more, but it was already outclassed before the war ever began. ---
**Author:** ![glaeken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@glaeken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glaeken)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/47 "2011-05-26T13:14:22Z")
This is a rather nice demonstration of the limitations of the BAR vs. the Bren by R. Lee Ermey. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/c-CfuvCHq4I/hqdefault.jpg "English BREN gun Vs american B.A.R") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-CfuvCHq4I) Sort of an aside to the topic but interesting I thought. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/48 "2011-05-26T13:18:34Z")
Clyde Barrow liked the [BAR.](http://texashideout.tripod.com/scatgun.html) One presumes he didn’t fire it as often as in WWII combat. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/49 "2011-05-26T14:27:34Z")
Barrow used what was available. More advanced designs like the Bren or the improved versions of the BAR as produced in Belgium or Sweden (detachable barrels!!!) simply weren’t sitting in National Guard and police armories waiting to be stolen. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/50 "2011-05-26T15:22:48Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > simply weren’t sitting in National Guard and police armories waiting to be stolen. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![what\_do\_I\_type\_here](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a5b964/32.png) [@what\_do\_I\_type\_here](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/what_do_I_type_here)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/51 "2011-05-26T21:29:17Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Eugene Sledge, already in the South Pacific with the Marines, had his dad buy a 45 back in Mobile Alabama and ship it overseas to him. The 45 had a lot of credibility: supposedly it was invented during the Philippine-American War because the Filippinos would charge into battle so high on dope that only a big fat slug would stop them. When I was a teenager, a Vietnam vet told me how it was indispensable against doped-up Viet Cong. Ssssssorta. The .45 cartridge was invented in the 1870’s and later on was surplanted by a .38 caliber cartridge . But then the US got involved in the Phillipines and they found the .38 wasn’t enough, so they ‘brought back’ the .45. Sledge didn’t use the famous Colt 45 pistol (properly called the model 1911), but a .45 revolver. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/52 "2011-05-26T23:33:13Z")
> [@what\_do\_I\_type\_here](#): > > Ssssssorta. The .45 cartridge was invented in the 1870’s and later on was surplanted by a .38 caliber cartridge . But then the US got involved in the Phillipines and they found the .38 wasn’t enough, so they ‘brought back’ the .45. > > Sledge didn’t use the famous Colt 45 pistol (properly called the model 1911), but a .45 revolver. …and the 1870’s revolver and the 1911 use two different cartridges. The revolver used the [.45 Colt](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Colt), originally a black powder round. The 1911 uses the [.45 acp,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_ACP)which was a smokeless round from the beginning. Some sources do claim that the .45 acp was designed to replicate .45 Colt ballistics as closely as possible from an automatic pistol. ---
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/53 "2011-05-26T23:52:18Z")
maybe this guy sledge used a 1917 revolver chambered for the .45 auto. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/54 "2011-05-27T00:13:43Z")
> [@mac\_bolan00](#): > > maybe this guy sledge used a 1917 revolver chambered for the .45 auto. That is a possibility as they were commercially available during the interwar years and were also still issued on a limited basis by the US military during the war. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/55 "2011-05-27T01:12:16Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > the .45 acp I always thought it was “Automatic Cartridge Pistol” is it that or “Automatic Colt Pistol”. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/56 "2011-05-27T01:20:00Z")
Automatic Colt Pistol (for the 1911.) .45 Colt is for revolver and I think there are also lever rifles that fire it. ---
**Author:** ![wei\_ji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wei\_ji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wei_ji)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/57 "2011-05-27T01:30:14Z")
…I’m certain I can document as factual a fantastic confrontation that occurred in the waters off Guadalcanal between a Japanese officer with a sword and an allied officer armed with a .45 1911. A small allied ship (may have been a New Zealand ship, that I can’t recall) caught a Japanese submarine on the surface and rammed it. A Japanese officer, later confirmed to have been a Kendo (fencing) expert, tried to storm aboard the ship from the sub’s conning tower while the two vessels were in contact. Sword in hand, he was cut down at close range by an officer with a .45 1911. Famous true incident. ---
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/58 "2011-05-27T01:31:32Z")
ACP is auto-centerfire-pistol. cartridges come in .25, .32, .38, and .45 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/59 "2011-05-27T01:36:31Z")
> [@mac\_bolan00](#): > > ACP is auto-centerfire-pistol. cartridges come in .25, .32, .38, and .45 I always wondered, given that my Fathers Beretta is .32 ACP. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/60 "2011-05-27T01:43:49Z")
> [@mac\_bolan00](#): > > ACP is auto-centerfire-pistol. cartridges come in .25, .32, .38, and .45 [Automatic Colt Pistol](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Colt_Pistol). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972.md?page=4)