# WWII US Infantry Weapons **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 24, 2011, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972 "2011-05-24T02:08:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/81 "2011-05-27T05:50:12Z")
the weight of the firearm, its recoil movement, the transmission of the force through your arm and onto your shoulder (the strongest part of your upper body,) will keep you from falling flat. but the .45 slug has a muzzle energy of 400 foot-pounds when it hits you in the chest three things can happen. the bullet could go through you in which case it hasn’t fully expended its energy on you. the bullet stays inside but fragments so its energy is also dissipated. last, it could stop inside you with no loss in mass so it has likely fully expended. 400 foot-pounds will knock you off your feet. imagine holding a 2-inch diameter solid iron bar six feet long (25 pounds?) assume a forward stance and jab the end at the chest of a man standing facing you. he’s likely to fall, right? but you won’t. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/82 "2011-05-27T06:57:41Z")
> [@mac\_bolan00](#): > > the weight of the firearm, its recoil movement, the transmission of the force through your arm and onto your shoulder (the strongest part of your upper body,) will keep you from falling flat. but the .45 slug has a muzzle energy of 400 foot-pounds … 400 foot-pounds will knock you off your feet. Utter nonsense > [@](#): > > imagine holding a 2-inch diameter solid iron bar six feet long (25 pounds?) assume a forward stance and jab the end at the chest of a man standing facing you. he’s likely to fall, right? but you won’t. :rolleyes: You are bracing yourself against both the ground \*and \*the bar, allowing you to lean into the opponent. Try this trick in any normal shooting stance and tell us whether you can knock your opponent over without falling yourself. ---
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/83 "2011-05-27T07:11:49Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > Utter nonsense how long will it take you to transform this line into something more meaningful? remember, the other guy said it’s impossible to knock someone down with a bullet you fired without knocking yourself down. > [@](#): > > You are bracing yourself against both the ground \*and \*the bar, allowing you to lean into the opponent. Try this trick in any normal shooting stance and tell us whether you can knock your opponent over without falling yourself. in assuming a firing stance, you are bracing against recoil and in effect “pushing” the bullet towards your target. how often do you shoot? ---
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/84 "2011-05-27T07:24:57Z")
wonder what happened to _mr-genus-falco-is-part-of-family-Accipitridae-and-there-is-no-indigenous-rice-in-north-america?_ ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/85 "2011-05-27T14:32:30Z")
I’m going to have to agree with **Blake** here. A company officer for Second Chance body armor used to demonstrate their wares by voluntarily getting shot while wearing the armor. In the video demonstration I watched, he either got shot with 5.56 NATO or 7.62 NATO out of what looked like an FN-FAL. He was standing on one leg, got shot in the chest, and did not fall over. Not how I would choose to earn a living, but it was proof enough for me that the momentum of a bullet is insufficient by itself to knock a human over. [Here’s the video I was talking about.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaS_2l8nGdg) The shot is at 2:16 on the video. Didn’t Mythbusters tackle this question and come up with the same answer? ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/86 "2011-05-27T20:41:50Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Didn’t Mythbusters tackle this question and come up with the same answer? Yep, along with all the world’s ballistic experts and physicists. The only people who still believe it are the gullible who take Hollywood for truth. ---
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2011, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/87 "2011-05-28T01:59:03Z")
yep, i’ve read similar accounts and i heard of the second chance demo (long time ago i think.) the FBI FTU published a paper. some things don’t convince me though: 1. their explanation that a bullet cannot knock a target person down without knocking the shooter down is stupid. one better not mention newton if he can’t even interpret how recoil works. plain to say this statement is a Blake “utter nonsense.” 2. the second chance demonstration does not disprove a bullet’s ability to topple a man because it was a controlled procedure, and the the man must have practiced being hit more than a hundred times. there’s a big difference between steeling one’s self for a bullet impact and getting hit while in the lurch. 3. personal experience with a .45 colt? it’s just as dubious as so-called accounts claiming the opposite. you guys know how heavy a steel sillouette target ram is? 40 pounds. at 200 yards a .45 slug will knock it down. now humans aren’t tough and consistent as a stationary steel target so don’t expect all of them to keel over everytime a .45 hits them. the mechanics of a ‘soft’ target are different. aside from bullet weight, bullet diameter also comes into play. also, bullet quality (one that guaranteed of breaking once it hits the target and not shatter or pass through. 1. mythbusters? nah. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2011, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/88 "2011-05-28T02:16:05Z")
**mac** , you are so very, very wrong. Not one person has been “knocked off their feet” by a .45 unless it was strapped to the front of a speeding truck. ---
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2011, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/89 "2011-05-28T02:37:00Z")
ok, i’ll shut it for now. it’s not mainly what i read but what i’ve seen personally. cheers. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2011, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/90 "2011-05-28T09:02:35Z")
> [@mac\_bolan00](#): > > it’s not mainly what i read but what i’ve seen personally. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2011, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/91 "2011-05-28T11:24:44Z")
> [@mac\_bolan00](#): > > … > you guys know how heavy a steel sillouette target ram is? 40 pounds. at 200 yards a .45 slug will knock it down. > … And balanced so as to fall down when hit, so you can see the effect of your shot. Weight has nothing to do with it. Humans are ~150 - 200 lbs, and _not_ precariously balanced for easy knocking-over. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/92 "2011-05-28T19:19:42Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > And balanced so as to fall down when hit, so you can see the effect of your shot. Weight has nothing to do with it. Humans are ~150 - 200 lbs, and _not_ precariously balanced for easy knocking-over. Well, sometimes they are. Given dozens of instances of shooting, I have no trouble believing that a person might be standing in such a precarious position that the energy of a bullet, fully absorbed by hitting bone, would knock them over. If a person is not braced for the shot and in an awkward position to start with, the bullet might tip the balance. However, I generally agree with the position that a bullet will not normally knock a person over due to conservation of energy. ---
**Author:** ![notsoheavyd3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/85e7bf/32.png) [@notsoheavyd3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notsoheavyd3)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2011, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/93 "2011-05-28T21:26:03Z")
> [@appleciders](#): > > However, I generally agree with the position that a bullet will not normally knock a person over due to conservation of energy. I think you mean conservation of momentum since that’s what’s applicable here. (Kinetic energy is not conserved in an inelastic collision and get hit by a bullet would definitely count as one.) ---
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2011, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972/94 "2011-05-29T09:12:48Z")
momentum conservation does not prove knocked down target = knocked down shooter. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-us-infantry-weapons/582972.md?page=4)