# WWII-Were There japanese/German Spy Rings in US Defence Plants and Shipyards? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 12, 2015, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-were-there-japanese-german-spy-rings-in-us-defence-plants-and-shipyards/722358 "2015-06-12T14:21:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-were-there-japanese-german-spy-rings-in-us-defence-plants-and-shipyards/722358/21 "2015-06-12T20:07:10Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > That would be quite unusual. Spies were usually either turned into double agents or executed. [https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/history/famous-cases/nazi-saboteurs](https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/history/famous-cases/nazi-saboteurs) \*In April, 1948, President Truman granted executive clemency to Dasch and Burger on condition of deportation. They were transported to the American Zone of Germany, the unexecuted portions of their sentences were suspended upon such conditions with respect to travel, employment, political, and other activities as the Theater commander might require, and they were freed. \* ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-were-there-japanese-german-spy-rings-in-us-defence-plants-and-shipyards/722358/22 "2015-06-12T20:24:03Z")
I don’t know about shipyards, but how about loose lips in [Congress](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_J._May)? ---
**Author:** ![Michigander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ccd318/32.png) [@Michigander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michigander)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2015, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-were-there-japanese-german-spy-rings-in-us-defence-plants-and-shipyards/722358/23 "2015-06-12T21:02:21Z")
As well as information, our people protected against physical damage in Defense plants. In our area of South Central Michigan most of the factories that made consumers goods and machinery, switched to war production almost entirely. My Grandfather worked as a plant guard in that period. He related a tale of a factory in Detroit which had sabotage to machinery. A small amount of emery dust in a bearing would render that machine useless. They were so determined at Grandpas’ workplace that a worker who was trusted to travel and install their peacetime product was not allowed past the front office because he was born in Germany. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2015, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-were-there-japanese-german-spy-rings-in-us-defence-plants-and-shipyards/722358/24 "2015-06-13T01:05:59Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > “well, gee, no aircraft carriers.” > > Man, I would like to know the story behind that. If they knew the carriers were out, surely the Japanese would have postponed things. It’s my understanding that the value of carriers was not realized until, say, Midway. Up until then, the capital ships were the battleships. ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2015, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-were-there-japanese-german-spy-rings-in-us-defence-plants-and-shipyards/722358/25 "2015-06-13T01:11:56Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > As was already pointed out, the German espionage activities against the United States during WWII are usually judged to have been amateurish and ineffective. Even if the German’s had access to everything - a perfect satellite view of every single ship under construction or planned, and exact blueprints and knowledge of the weaknesses of every ship, what difference would it have made? They were so badly outnumbered on the oceans that none of that would have mattered. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2015, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-were-there-japanese-german-spy-rings-in-us-defence-plants-and-shipyards/722358/26 "2015-06-13T01:33:33Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > It’s my understanding that the value of carriers was not realized until, say, Midway. > > Up until then, the capital ships were the battleships. Surely the fact that the Japanese attack was conducted by aircraft carriers shows that the Japanese, if perhaps not the Americans, knew their worth. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2015, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-were-there-japanese-german-spy-rings-in-us-defence-plants-and-shipyards/722358/27 "2015-06-13T03:04:12Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > Even if the German’s had access to everything - a perfect satellite view of every single ship under construction or planned, and exact blueprints and knowledge of the weaknesses of every ship, what difference would it have made? They were so badly outnumbered on the oceans that none of that would have mattered. This totally ignores the German U-boat fleet, which nearly destroyed the ability to supply Britain from America. Until the British finally broke their codes, literally nothing else mattered as much as the German control of the Atlantic to the U.K. or the U.S. in that theater. Better German intelligence about shipping would have been a gigantic, enormous, titanic - choose your adjective - advantage to them and an equally great disaster to the Allies. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2015, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-were-there-japanese-german-spy-rings-in-us-defence-plants-and-shipyards/722358/28 "2015-06-13T03:52:36Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > This totally ignores the German U-boat fleet, which nearly destroyed the ability to supply Britain from America. Until the British finally broke their codes, literally nothing else mattered as much as the German control of the Atlantic to the U.K. or the U.S. in that theater. Better German intelligence about shipping would have been a gigantic, enormous, titanic - choose your adjective - advantage to them and an equally great disaster to the Allies. Yep the German U-boats and to a lesser extent the surface raiders and aircraft- would have made sure no one ton of cargo made it to England or Russia thru the Atlantic. Thus the UK would have to sue for peace, and the USSR woudl collapse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwii-were-there-japanese-german-spy-rings-in-us-defence-plants-and-shipyards/722358.md?page=1)