WWII what ifs

DrDeth, was the book you were thinking of How Hitler Could Have Won WWII by Bevin Alexander? His engaging analysis ranges from the biggest bloopers (re. Barbarossa and lost opportunities at Dunkirk and North Africa) to the relatively minor ones, like the paratroop attack on Crete (instead of Malta, which was of far greater strategic importance and was easier to conquer).

Like this one, the Moskito?

Admittedly it wasn’t very good, but it proves the Germans knew a good idea when they saw one… they copied the Sten Gun later on in the war, too- especially when raw materials were getting hard to come by.

The Barbarosa plan was intercepted and reported to Stalin by his best spy in Japan, Richard Sorge. Stalin ignored him then, but after that, Stalin did take his advice:

Think there’s a spelling error - it’s Japanese. thanks

I used “Japs” as a deliberately insulting term to refer to the Convicted War Criminal Government of WWII Japan, (as was clear from the context)just like we use “Nazis” to refer to the WWII Germans. The Japs and the Nazis were War Criminals with some of the most disgusting inhuman activities ever perpeptrated against humanity. I will not apologize for either term when it is properly applied to those despicable, vile, and inhuman monsters. There was no spelling error. If you don’t like it, “report this post”.

In context, I do think is ok to use Japs, but in the example quoted you did not refer to Germans as Nazis, not a big deal really.

with all due respect, “Jap” is a derogatory inflammatory term. It is *not * synonomous with “Convicted War Criminal Government of WWII Japan.” In your context, it would be the Japanese as part of the Axis pursuing a war of aggression with Russia. Or specifically the *Japanese * Kwantung Army, who were slaughtered en masse in the battle of Momohan by the Russians, thus ending that possible scenario. The Kwantung Army was responsible for numerous atrocities in Manchuria.

Please also note that “Krout” is not synonomous for “Nazi” or “Germans” and one would be rightly called for such usage on these boards.

Moderator’s Note: Don’t use ethnic slurs to express your distaste for political or ideological groups.

“Nazi” refers to a political or ideological belief or association, and contains no slur against Germans, Europeans, people with pale skin, etc.; whereas “Jap” is a disparaging term for an entire ethnic group, whether or not they were or are proponents of the fanatically nationalist/racist militarist ideas of the Japanese regime before and during World War II. “Nazi” (or “Fascist” or “Commie”) are not in the same category as “Kraut”, “Wop”, or “Jap”.

Unfortunately I don’t know of any short, punchy words for “proponents of the fanatically nationalist/racist militarist ideas of the Japanese regime before and during World War II”, but there you go.

I’m not about to mount a pro-racist-figures-of-speech soapbox, but ISTM that the Chinese would be the least likely of all to want to see the Japanese well spoken of - what with the rape of Nanking and similar pleasantries. :confused:

Sino-Japanese relationship is a quite complicated love-hate kinda thing. As is any other former enemy now ally and trading partners (can anyone say European Union?). So says the son of a decorated WW2 Pacific Theater & Korean War combat vet (who rarely used the proper word for Japanese, Chinese or Asians).

Now that this spelling error has been corrected, howsabout getting back to a pretty interesting thread…

It would have been interesting if the Japanese had in fact been serious about invading Siberia/Russia instead of expanding their involvement in China. My understanding it was basically rouge elements of the Japanese Kwantung Army that wanted to expand into Mongolia/Siberia. The one big battle Khalkin Gol/Momohan has a decisive defeat for the Japanese. What would have happened if the Japanese had concentrated on Mongolia/Siberia instead of China, and thrown their whole weight into the campaign?

Moreover, if Hitler had informed the Japanese about his plans to invade Russia, and they had joined him by invading Eastrn Siberia, they wouldn’t have started muscling in on European colonies in the Far/Near East. In turn, the American embargo on oil and various other raw materials might not have happened, and so there would be no Pearl Harbour, and thus America would never have entered the war at all (somehow I think that America would have been less than outraged over an invasion of Communist Russia, which they had themselves invaded some 20 years before).

BTW, Wikipedia says that the coalition of military officers and imperial sycophants that ruled Japan 1930-1945 (I paraphrase) was under the banner of the Imperial Rule Assistance Association, so perhaps we can refer to the Japanase in this conflict as “IRAA’s” the same way we talk about “Nazi’s”.

As has been pointed out by others, the amateur thinks about initial available forces while the professional thinks about the longterm logistical support for those forces.

The Royal Navy can’t be taken out of the picture if you are committing a large armed force to fight on an island that is removed from its logistical base.

In the Normandy invasion on DDay, had the airborne drops not been followed up by a large land force bringing supplies along, the troopers would have lasted maybe three days, max.

I think they would been repulsed - I just can’t see the JIA (the term I prefer) cutting the trans-Siberian RR and that holding indefinitely - armor. To me that repulsion is all Stalin needed to do.

“What if” Stalin then decided he needed to March through Manchuria (or even China, and in northern Korea) and rid this threat on his doorstep? “What if” he decided to stall and stymie the Germans while he did that and then got bogged down in Manchuria (and/or China/Korea) - and like Happy Clam points out Japan in this scenario never attacked Pearl?

I can see Stalin looking for a separate peace from the Nazis in that case.

In fact, IRL this wasn’t going to happen* - but I think there is a hint at what the Nazis would have done. At the time the Japanese were fighting the Russians, Hitler signed the non-aggression pact with the USSR. You know why Stalin did it - but to me it is telling of the short sighted, and ultimately incompetent , nature of the Nazi leadership that Germany betrayed the Axis that way. (*and a top 10 reason, alnong with not being syure they could win, haveing better tragerts than Siberia, etc, why the Japanese really didn’t help Germany by invasion 2.0)

GIGObuster Stalin redeployed after

“Japs” is a racial slur used to define all Japanese, and it is not semantically similar to “Nazi,” which is not a racial slur. Your use of “Japs” is no different from saying “I hate niggers” and then claiming you’re only referring to the Mugabe administration.

Those floating harbours that the Allies used to dock deepwater ships were amazing feats of engineering. I was astounded at how they managed to construct them in England and float them all the way to Normandy. The sinking of ships to create artificial breakwaters was also genius.

The Germans and their plan to use barges from the Rhine, which weren’t ocean-going, and their miniscule merchant fleet pales in comparison. Not to mention their lack of an effective surface navy to protect convoys in the RN’s home-turf, The English Channel. There’s just no way that an invasion would have been successful purely from the standpoint of moving men and materiel.

How much ammo and supplies can one soldier carry and how long would it last, especially when in all likelihood fighting would be extremely fierce?

“Not enough” and “not long enough” is an adequate answer to the last one. IIRC the average WW1 infantryman had to tote around something like 60lb of gear; I don’t know if they carried less in WW2. But if you’re talking in terms of what’s man-portable, you’re certainly restricted to small arms. You can carry a LMG - about 90lb in weight - but you won’t be able to shoot it for long. A round may weigh only an ounce or so, but you can burn sixty pounds of that in a minute if you’re really trying. Also, every pound of ammo you can carry is a pound of rations you can’t.

Heh. :wink:

Even a WWII machine gun did not weigh that much, even carrying some ammo. I’ve picked up an MG-42.

Still, an LMG don’t help against a tank.

As much as I hate to further this sidetrack, I strongly disagree that “Jap” is anywhere near the same level of “Nigger”.

Indeed, in the Military History and Military Surplus Arms Collecting Community, “Jap” is perfectly acceptable shorthand for “Japanese”.

“Nips” is a racial slur. “Yellow Peril” is a racial slur. “Gook” is a racial slur.

“Jap” is not, IMO.

Most people I know would use “Jap” the way they’d use “Pom” or “Kiwi” or “Yank”- just a shorthand term for describing where someone’s from, without any “baggage” attached to it. I’ve heard plenty of people refer to the Japanese as “Japs” in casual conversation, not in a racist way- just as a shortening of Japanese (For example, referring to a car as a “Jap Import” doesn’t mean it’s crap, it just means it’s from Japan).

I accept the poster that used it in this context was attempting to make a slur, but it worries me because it is a word I would have more than likely used if discussing the Japanese involvement in WWII- not out of any desire to make ethnic slurs, but simply because it’s a word that’s always been used in a non-racist context by, well, pretty much anyone I’ve ever met.

I shall, however, consider myself educated that there are people on this board who find the term offensive and shall make a mental note to avoid its use in discussions of things Japanese, military or otherwise…

I don’t know the details but I’m sure someone here does. I do know that a fairly large fraction of the assault force is involved in bringing ammunition forward. Water is also a vital need. You can go without food for quite a while and still be effective, but without water your effectiveness drops off rapidly.

I’m reasonably certain Stalin attempted to sue for peace at least twice during the initial German advance in 1941- the first time offering similar terms to the 1917 Treaty of Brest Litovsk (Ukraine and most land between Poland and Moscow). However, both times he was rebuffed. Just checking Court of the Red Tsar for a cite.