# WWJD Re: Gay People. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 18, 2019, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146 "2019-05-18T09:06:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/61 "2019-06-10T16:54:18Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > This is saying “God needs to bend to accommodate human culture.” And God does that. Remember how often Jesus said “You have heard it said that […] but I say […].” I firmly believe that the Jesus I worship would say “You have heard it said that homosexuality is an abomination to God. But I tell you the truth: God sees the oppressed and will deliver them.” The Council of Jerusalem ended with them deciding that Gentile Christians did not have to follow Mosaic law, so the Old Testament laws about homosexuality do not matter. And all that is left are poorly translated terms in the New Testament that clearly refer to pederasty, not homosexuality. Realize that, and the inconsistency of having a God who seems to hate people for who they are goes away. It aligns with there being “neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” Why should there not also be “no straight or gay”? ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/62 "2019-06-10T16:57:19Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > OK, in Acts 10, Peter has a dream of God telling him to slaughter unclean animals & eat them, then awakens to get a request from a Roman centurion to come tell him & his loved ones about God/Jesus. He goes to share the Gospel with them, they believe & receive the Holy Spirit, which shows Peter that God is disrupting the old Jewish/Gentile barriers, so he goes ahead & baptizes them without putting any Judaic demands on them. That’s a…very deep interpretation of Acts 10. Peter’s dream consists of God calling all animals fair game, “Do not call impure what God has made clean”. God does, in fact, break down the Jewish/Gentile barrier, as he did regularly, even as Jesus walked the planet. Literally nothing else is said regarding circumcision, sacrifice, or anything else. Just that Gentiles can also be welcomed into the church. > [@](#): > > In Acts 15, the whole issue as to what God requires of Gentile believers, including circumscision, kosher diet, and other aspects of the law of Moses, finally forces the Apostles to consider the issue, with input of Peter regarding his dream & experience with the centurion’s household, and from Paul regarding his ministry to the Gentiles. The final result, endorsed by James “the brother of the Lord”, that Gentiles need not get clipped nor be bound to the Israel-specific laws of Moses, but they are forbidden from idolatry & eating things offered to idols, “blood” (either violence or eating blood), eating strangled (inhumanely slaughtered) animals, and sexual immorality. > Those things were forbidden in what the Rabbis considered the Noahic Law given to all humanity. That was what’s often called the Jerusalem Council. Nothing from God in that decision. > [@](#): > > In Leviticus 18 & 20, the sexual taboos are listed: incest, adultery, male-male intercourse, bestiality, along with child-sacrifice, with the notation that it was for those practices that the pagan peoples are being displanted by Israel. > > Leviticus 19:19 is the law against mixing plant seeds, interbreeding animals, & mixing fabrics (specifically wool & linen), as symbolic of Israel/Gentile distinction. That’s reading a hell of a lot into “Do not mate different kinds of animals. Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.” In any case, using the old Levitican Law to disprove the reasoning of Levitican Law is…circular, at best. > [@](#): > > Paul in Romans 1:26-27 & I Corinthians 6:9-11 includes same-sex relations among forbidden practices to all people. Now, to Christians, Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles- Christ’s Agent to bring us the Gospel & what He required of us, even as Peter & the rest were sent to Israel. Throughout his letters, he emphasizes the freedom of believers from kosher diet, circumscision, Sabbath & festival obligations. That does not free them from the moral obligations. So…still nothing from God saying, “These laws are for everyone”, “These laws are for Jews”, and “These laws no longer apply because of my Son”? We have a select bit from his followers, but pardon me if I refuse to take my faith from man. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/63 "2019-06-10T17:31:19Z")
> [@Jim\_B](#): > > I actually have been hearing quite a bit about this subject, what Jesus would do concerning gays, if he were around today. It is hard to provide cites (much of it is on TV–like _Real Time_ with Bill Maher just tonight). But I just tell you straightforward what I have heard. > > Jesus never mentioned homosexuality. Actually, the strange divisions we now have in sexuality is rather a new thing (I heard on the _History Channel_, a while ago). But he never mentioned what we would call gay sex acts, in any event. > > Also, Jesus was very non-conventional. He said things no one ever said before (like love those who hurt you, instead of _‘an eye for an eye’_ like people thought at the time). If he were around today, he might even endorse gay marriage. Why not? You are correct. Jesus never talked about homosexuality. Jesus was all about forgiveness, and **The Other Waldo Pepper** got it right when he said: _Upon seeing that a guy was about to hurl a rock at a gay person’s head, Jesus would presumably tell said guy not to hurl said rock;_ However, Paul and the OT, dating back several thousand years did mention gay sex as a sin (altho Paul listed it as a sin along the lines of adultery, drunkenness, and so forth, in others words, not that bad). But it’s not just Judeo-Christianity, the Muslim faith, the Hindu faith and most other old school religions are not tolerant of gay sex. Back in the past, you needed babies and families to raise those babies- so gay sex, adultery and fornication were no-nos. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/64 "2019-06-10T18:06:58Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > However, Paul and the OT, dating back several thousand years did mention gay sex as a sin (altho Paul listed it as a sin **along the lines of adultery, drunkenness, and so forth** , in others words, not that bad). (My bolding) It is possible that homosexual sex was ‘disallowed’ because heterosexual men did not want to commit adultery by having sex with another woman, and so therefore thought having a homosexual affair was not adultery, per se. And it is possible that this is the type of homosexual activities that were against the ‘law’ (law in the sense of law vs. gospel). ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/65 "2019-06-10T18:10:19Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And God does that. Remember how often Jesus said “You have heard it said that […] but I say […].” Except that that was the exact opposite. Jesus was not accommodating people. For instance, He said that “You have heard it said that a man can divorce his wife by giving her a certificate of divorce” (in other words, the human culture of the day was accommodating of divorce)…“but I say” (and then puts in much tighter restrictions, saying that even marrying post-divorce is adultery). He also said that human culture allows “eye for an eye” but then put in an even tighter restriction - that people were not supposed to retaliate even when struck. He was \*flouting \*human culture of the day. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/66 "2019-06-10T18:34:20Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > (My bolding) > > It is possible that homosexual sex was ‘disallowed’ because heterosexual men did not want to commit adultery by having sex with another woman, and so therefore thought having a homosexual affair was not adultery, per se. > > And it is possible that this is the type of homosexual activities that were against the ‘law’ (law in the sense of law vs. gospel). Sure, could be. Also there were the equivalent of “gay sex clubs” and gay hookers, and those were repugnant to most. Note that Lesbians were never mentioned or singled out. So, it wasnt _being gay_. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/67 "2019-06-10T19:01:09Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Except that that was the exact opposite. Jesus was not accommodating people. For instance, He said that “You have heard it said that a man can divorce his wife by giving her a certificate of divorce” (in other words, the human culture of the day was accommodating of divorce)…“but I say” (and then puts in much tighter restrictions, saying that even marrying post-divorce is adultery). He also said that human culture allows “eye for an eye” but then put in an even tighter restriction - that people were not supposed to retaliate even when struck. > > He was \*flouting \*human culture of the day. Even if this is all true, how does it support the idea that JC would consider homosexuality a sin and for what reasons? How does homosexuality affect, for good or otherwise, his purpose of redeeming us all (sorry if I have that wrong, I wasn’t a Christian for long – heck, by the standards of some I probably wasn’t Christian at all – and I’m not remotely one now and the doctrine is increasingly hazy). I’d like to believe the best of Jesus of Nazareth but if this “homosexuality is sin” bullshit turns out to be true, then count me out. It defies logic and it defies love and humanity. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/68 "2019-06-10T19:17:06Z")
> [@Red\_Wiggler](#): > > Even if this is all true, how does it support the idea that JC would consider homosexuality a sin It wasn’t meant to. IIUC, **Velocity** was addressing the misconception behind one of **BigT** ’s statements (as I was tempted to do), but that doesn’t mean what he was saying was directly relevant to the main topic of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/69 "2019-06-10T19:48:57Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Ever hear of the Jerusalem Council of the Apostles? > The distinctions between the Ceremonial & the Moral Laws of Torah? > What applies strictly to the nation Israel & what applies universally to all humanity? > > I do give you credit for going beyond the “what about eating pork & shellfish & wearing mixed fabrics, huh?” that I usually see in these discussions. > > However, check out this elaborately produced & scholarly deep cartoon. When that rather silly lecture hit the point of claiming that the entire point of Judaism was to produce Jesus, I quit watching. Before I got there, however, I noted that the producer of that particular video put all of the Ten Commandments into Moral Law. Keeping the Sabbath is in the Ten Commandments. More broadly: yes, I am aware that at various points groups of people got together, declared themselves authorities, and decided which of the rules in the bible they thought ought to apply to themselves; not to mention which scriptures they thought belong in the bible in the first place; and that they came up with various justifications for these decisions. I just don’t think that the fact that people a long time ago decided to pick and choose certain passages and certain entire books to ignore means that people now aren’t doing the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/70 "2019-06-10T20:48:44Z")
I’d like to say, if Jesus came back now (ignoring the whole end times thing) and just hung out, He’s not going to be Jesus, son of God but yet can be killed. There’s no need for the die for our sins thing, that’s been done already. it’s still valid. He’s going to be basically Superman. He’s going to preach and have followers and rage against the false Christians. And He won’t be able to be killed, or arrested. And He’s going to do miracles. The only thing anyone could do to hurt or bother Him is ignore Him. Now THAT would be interesting! ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/71 "2019-06-10T22:02:15Z")
Back to the OP, why do you ask? I mean it looks like you have already made up your mind as are others who commented. Nobodies minds are being changed. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2019, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/72 "2019-06-10T22:03:37Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > I’d like to say, if Jesus came back now (ignoring the whole end times thing) and just hung out, He’s not going to be Jesus, son of God but yet can be killed. There’s no need for the die for our sins thing, that’s been done already. it’s still valid. > > He’s going to be basically Superman. He’s going to preach and have followers and rage against the false Christians. And He won’t be able to be killed, or arrested. And He’s going to do miracles. The only thing anyone could do to hurt or bother Him is ignore Him. > > Now THAT would be interesting! He might also take a stand on sin. Since he was there at creation he can honestly say what is in born, natural, and what is learned. ---
**Author:** ![fedman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/278dde/32.png) [@fedman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2019, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/73 "2019-06-11T00:23:23Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > He would love them. > > Yeah, my understanding is that homosexuality _as an orientation_, a matter of identity apart from behavior, “wasn’t a thing” back then in the old days. It wasn’t how people thought. One might even be able to argue that the Bible says nothing at all, anywhere, about homosexuality _as we understand it today_. But in any case, you’re right: Jesus never mentioned it. see genesis 19:5, also Luke 10:12 ---
**Author:** ![fedman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/278dde/32.png) [@fedman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2019, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/74 "2019-06-11T00:26:19Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Jesus was all about comforting the downtrodden. His entire ethos is that the oppressed are actually the most important people. The last shall be first, and all that. He was against legalism, and was really big on saying that “love your neighbor as yourself” was (along with loving God) the entire point of the law. > > Homosexuality of today is not the pederasty of the past, nor is it some giant sex cult thing, worshiping a false god. I don’t really see what he would find objectionable about it. He would just see an oppressed class of people who need comfort. > > So, as a Christian, I see it as my responsibility to be like Christ in this respect. My fundamentalist brethren are into legalism, which Jesus abhorred. You do know he said to leave parents and cling unto your "wife’, also Luke 10:12 about not becoming like Sodom ---
**Author:** ![fedman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/278dde/32.png) [@fedman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2019, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/75 "2019-06-11T00:28:25Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > [The Bible does not condemn “homosexuality.” Seriously, it doesn’t. | by adam nicholas phillips | Medium](https://medium.com/@adamnicholasphillips/the-bible-does-not-condemn-homosexuality-seriously-it-doesn-t-13ae949d6619) > > This was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty, and did abominable things before me; therefore I removed them when I saw it. — Ezekiel 16:49,50 aren’t you ignoring Genesis 19:5? ---
**Author:** ![ioioio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ioioio/32/316_2.png) [@ioioio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ioioio)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2019, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/76 "2019-06-11T00:29:47Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > . . . > Many people today focus on God’s love to the exclusion of His other attributes. But He is also just and holy; such a God cannot, by His very nature, cannot let sin go unpunished. > . . . But he’s God. He defines what’s just and holy. He decides what’s sin and what the punishment for it is. I find it unlikely that the Creator of the Universe cares what people do with their genitals, as long as they don’t hurt anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![fedman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/278dde/32.png) [@fedman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2019, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/77 "2019-06-11T00:30:33Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Where in the Bible does Jesus describe homosexuality as a wicked lifestyle? try fornication ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2019, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/78 "2019-06-11T00:45:06Z")
> [@fedman](#): > > try fornication I have, and I’m a fan. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2019, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/79 "2019-06-11T01:08:31Z")
> [@fedman](#): > > try fornication According to modern theology, that’s self-forgivenable. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Wiggler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/red_wiggler/32/13190_2.png) [@Red\_Wiggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Wiggler)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2019, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/80 "2019-06-11T12:18:25Z")
> [@ioioio](#): > > But he’s God. He defines what’s just and holy. He decides what’s sin and what the punishment for it is. > > I find it unlikely that the Creator of the Universe cares what people do with their genitals, as long as they don’t hurt anyone else. If Jesus were to return, I think the Falwells and the Osteens would have more to fear from his wrath than our peaceful and loving gay citizens. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146.md?page=5)