# WWJD Re: Gay People. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 18, 2019, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146 "2019-05-18T09:06:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/161 "2019-06-17T19:30:14Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > He’s a die hard atheist. Hard core. So I doubt anything I can say would change his mind just like noted atheist Christopher Hitchens whom I heard once say while nobody could prove to him there was a God, he also could not prove there wasnt one either. He also came up with Hitchen’s razor. He died in 2011 so I guess he found his answer. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/162 "2019-06-17T19:35:55Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > So I doubt anything I can say would change his mind just like noted atheist Christopher Hitchens whom I heard once say while nobody could prove to him there was a God, he also could not prove there wasnt one either. He also came up with Hitchen’s razor. > > He died in 2011 so I guess he found his answer. Answering a direct question instead of insisting that only Christians have the right to ask questions about Christ or replying to questions not asked might have an influence. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/163 "2019-06-17T19:47:49Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > And that is leaving out all the people who are certain that they can’t very well accept the guidance of something that doesn’t exist. > [@Urbanredneck](#): > > PS. You dont know God doesnt exist. You cannot disprove it anymore than I can prove it. Aside from any questions of defining God and of arguments for and against the existence of any God meeting a specific definition: I didn’t say anything about proof. I was talking about certainty. Humans are perfectly capable of being certain about things they don’t have any proof for. There are people who are just as certain that God doesn’t exist as anyone else is certain that God exists; just as there are people who are equally certain that God wants everybody to follow some specific branch of Christianity as others are certain that God wants people to follow another branch of Christianity, or to follow Islam, or to follow something else entirely. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/164 "2019-06-17T19:55:50Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I am not sure about all of that but consider Jesus DID include women in his ministry for example, the Samaritan woman at the well. Its interesting that his conversation with her was the longest ever recorded in the bible to one person. He talked to her, proved his authority, and used her to bring others to him. > > There was also the example of the widow and her 3 mites where Jesus showed that her example showed a greater level of sacrifice and devotion than the rich men were doing. > > Jesus also made note of different womens devotion such as the Martha who anointed his head with oil and spent time at his feet learning from him rather than her sisters insistence on working in the kitchen. > > After Jesus’s resurrection the first people Jesus appeared to were 2 women. > > So women were there and Jesus noted there service all along. There is, or should be, no question that Jewish and Christian women of the first century provided service. The issue which I was addressing was whether women were permitted to preach and the evidence for or against such a claim. My position is that I do not believe we have sufficient evidence for women preaching in the Christian community and that, as Christianity was a Jewish heresy, it most likely did not provide that opportunity. I have no problem with women engaging in all occupations, today, and I do not believe that my position is unassailable–provided further evidence s provided. ---
**Author:** ![rsat3acr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@rsat3acr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsat3acr)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/165 "2019-06-17T21:08:37Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > So I doubt anything I can say would change his mind just like noted atheist Christopher Hitchens whom I heard once say while nobody could prove to him there was a God, he also could not prove there wasnt one either. He also came up with Hitchen’s razor. > > He died in 2011 so I guess he found his answer. if there is no god he did not find his answer, only if there is one did he find an answer ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/166 "2019-06-17T23:08:24Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Answering a direct question instead of insisting that only Christians have the right to ask questions about Christ or replying to questions not asked might have an influence. Or perhaps he only answers questions which he feels are sincere. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/167 "2019-06-17T23:10:39Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Or perhaps he only answers questions which he feels are sincere. There is that excuse too, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/168 "2019-06-17T23:11:12Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > There is, or should be, no question that Jewish and Christian women of the first century provided service. The issue which I was addressing was whether women were permitted to preach and the evidence for or against such a claim. > My position is that I do not believe we have sufficient evidence for women preaching in the Christian community and that, as Christianity was a Jewish heresy, it most likely did not provide that opportunity. I have no problem with women engaging in all occupations, today, and I do not believe that my position is unassailable–provided further evidence s provided. I think my two cites make it clear that women did in fact provide service. True, Originally Christianity was a Jewish heresy, but Paul changed all that when he reached out to the gentiles, and didnt require circumcision, dietary laws, and what not. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/169 "2019-06-17T23:24:55Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > There is that excuse too, I suppose. Well, in my opinion, your questions are not sincere. I feel you seek to get him to make a answer which you would mock. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2019, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/170 "2019-06-17T23:30:57Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, in my opinion, your questions are not sincere. I feel you seek to get him to make a answer which you would mock. What is so convenient about comments like this is that as long an actual response to a question is withheld I have no possible way to prove you wrong. Your accusation is out there for all to see, and the actual answer to the question asked never has to be answered. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/171 "2019-06-18T14:56:32Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What is so convenient about comments like this is that as long an actual response to a question is withheld I have no possible way to prove you wrong. Interesting that your objection to when you are Just Asking Questions is that your purpose is to prove him wrong. Maybe that’s different from a question that isn’t sincere, but it’s close. Jesus never mentioned homosexuality, and the only references known to any sexual sin was that He condemned it - adultery specifically, sexual immorality which is more generic but possibly included fornication, divorce (although one quote is absolute and others are more equivocal). The subject of homosexuality never came up, either because Jesus or the Gospel writers took it for granted, or because the subject was more or less unthinkable. It’s like abortion - it just wasn’t a thing. It is sort of reminiscent of arguments about whether the First Amendment applies to the Internet and TV, or the Second only to flintlock muskets. Except you can’t amend Scripture, and there is no Supreme Court to decide. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/172 "2019-06-18T15:27:20Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Except you can’t amend Scripture, and there is no Supreme Court to decide. Religions amend scripture through the use of interpretation-every single one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/173 "2019-06-18T15:37:56Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Interesting that your objection to when you are Just Asking Questions is that your purpose is to prove him wrong. Would you mind rewording this, because it makes it sound like I said that my purpose is to prove him wrong-I never said this. I never implied this. It wasn’t my intention at all to prove him or anyone else wrong when I asked this question. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/174 "2019-06-18T16:33:07Z")
Well, I can try. What you objected to was that you had no possible way to prove him wrong. I assume “I” meant you and “prove him wrong” meant prove him wrong. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/175 "2019-06-18T16:40:29Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, in my opinion, your questions are not sincere. I feel you seek to get him to make a answer which you would mock. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > What is so convenient about comments like this is that as long an actual response to a question is withheld I have no possible way to prove you wrong. Your accusation is out there for all to see, and the actual answer to the question asked never has to be answered. > [@Shodan](#): > > Well, I can try. What you objected to was that you had no possible way to prove him wrong. > > I assume “I” meant you and “prove him wrong” meant prove him wrong. > > Regards, > Shodan I am (obviously) not Czarcasm. But that reads quite clearly to me not as a desire to prove the person wrong who the genuine question was originally asked of, but as a desire to prove wrong DrDeth’s accusation of insincerity in asking it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/176 "2019-06-18T16:54:51Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > I am (obviously) not Czarcasm. But that reads quite clearly to me not as a desire to prove the person wrong who the genuine question was originally asked of, but as a desire to prove wrong DrDeth’s accusation of insincerity in asking it. Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/177 "2019-06-18T17:09:58Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > I am (obviously) not Czarcasm. But that reads quite clearly to me not as a desire to prove the person wrong who the genuine question was originally asked of, but as a desire to prove wrong DrDeth’s accusation of insincerity in asking it. I am basing my objections and opinions on Czarcasm’s long history here of “Just Asking Question” whose purpose IMHO is to mock Christians and Christianity. He is a die hard atheist, he wont deny that. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/178 "2019-06-18T17:20:43Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I am basing my objections and opinions on Czarcasm’s long history here of “Just Asking Question” whose purpose IMHO is to mock Christians and Christianity. He is a die hard atheist, he wont deny that. I think you are basing your response on the image of me you would like people to believe. You repeatedly make this accusation, then point to the times you make this accusation as some sort of evidence that the accusation is true. Deny I am a “die hard atheist”? I don’t even know what you mean by that term. I am an atheist because I have yet to see any evidence as to the existence of any gods-is that what you mean by “die hard atheist”? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/179 "2019-06-18T18:27:26Z")
An important element of the Just Asking Questions approach is not to post, nor try to defend, a substantive position of your own. If that is not what you are doing, then what you said earlier about not having any way to prove that you’re not doing it is untrue. You could easily prove it by posting and explaining your answer to the OP, and your reasons for believing it. I don’t see that you have done that yet - just something about loving the one you’re with, and there is no evidence that Jesus ever said anything of the sort. So, go ahead - since you are not Just Asking Questions, put forth a position and defend it. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2019, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146/180 "2019-06-18T18:41:58Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > An important element of the Just Asking Questions approach is not to post, nor try to defend, a substantive position of your own. If that is not what you are doing, then what you said earlier about not having any way to prove that you’re not doing it is untrue. You could easily prove it by posting and explaining your answer to the OP, and your reasons for believing it. I don’t see that you have done that yet - just something about loving the one you’re with, and there is no evidence that Jesus ever said anything of the sort. > > So, go ahead - since you are not Just Asking Questions, put forth a position and defend it. > > Regards, > Shodan I am not holding a position that needs to be defended. I am curious as to how those that profess to be Christian answer the question posed in the OP. I don’t know if I am supposed to defend being curious, or I am supposed to tell you what I, _an atheist_, think Jesus would say or do about gay people if he came back. So tell me-Are you asking me the first asinine question, the second asinine question, or both asinine questions? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wwjd-re-gay-people/834146.md?page=10)