# X and Y and Z Vs. X, Y and Z **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 13, 2012, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-and-y-and-z-vs-x-y-and-z/640881 "2012-11-13T14:02:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Oly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oly/32/8255_2.png) [@Oly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oly)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-and-y-and-z-vs-x-y-and-z/640881/1 "2012-11-13T14:02:43Z")
As a stylistic norm, more frequently I see the former, but in general I prefer the latter. To me the latter seems more deliberate and thought out, whereas the former sounds like one is just tacking on and on and on off the cuff. Any other thoughts and opinions and preferences? (See what I mean?) ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-and-y-and-z-vs-x-y-and-z/640881/2 "2012-11-13T14:17:45Z")
I prefer the serial comma (X, Y, and Z). ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-and-y-and-z-vs-x-y-and-z/640881/3 "2012-11-13T14:35:54Z")
I also prefer “X, Y and Z” when the series is thought out ahead of time. The wrinkle comes in when X, Y and Z are not parallel, but that form is used anyway. Then it just irks me. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-and-y-and-z-vs-x-y-and-z/640881/4 "2012-11-13T15:07:50Z")
in speech there would be commas then ‘and’ for ordinary things. with spoken math or in writing i would use all commas. this for axes, variables, constants or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-and-y-and-z-vs-x-y-and-z/640881/5 "2012-11-13T17:20:33Z")
> [@Oly](#): > > As a stylistic norm, more frequently I see the former, but in general I prefer the latter. To me the latter seems more deliberate and thought out, whereas the former sounds like one is just tacking on and on and on off the cuff. Any other thoughts and opinions and preferences? (See what I mean?) :dubious: You really see “X and Y and Z” more often than “X, Y, and Z” or “X, Y and Z”? I almost never see “X and Y and Z”. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-and-y-and-z-vs-x-y-and-z/640881/6 "2012-11-13T18:47:33Z")
> [@Scarlett67](#): > > I prefer the serial comma (X, Y, and Z). I do to. I guess it’s the programmer in me. But there seems to be a general preference to skip the second comma. I only see (X and Y and Z) when done for emphasis. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-and-y-and-z-vs-x-y-and-z/640881/7 "2012-11-13T18:50:03Z")
> [@Scarlett67](#): > > I prefer the serial comma (X, Y, and Z). Concur. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-and-y-and-z-vs-x-y-and-z/640881/8 "2012-11-13T19:17:04Z")
Serial comma, always. Learn it, live it, love it. Non-serial comma use is for poofters. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-and-y-and-z-vs-x-y-and-z/640881/9 "2012-11-13T20:27:12Z")
Wouldn’t the sentence ‘I want to put a hyphen between the words Fish and And and And and Chips in my Fish-and-Chips sign’ have been clearer if quotation marks had been placed before Fish, and between Fish and and, and and and And, and And and and, and and and And, and And and and, and and and Chips, as well as after Chips? ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-and-y-and-z-vs-x-y-and-z/640881/10 "2012-11-13T20:29:14Z")
Did you hear that pop? That was my cerebellum. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-and-y-and-z-vs-x-y-and-z/640881/11 "2012-11-13T21:42:48Z")
Old-school FORTRAN programmer here. Only X .AND. Y .AND. Z will parse. Actually, here is my boeuf with a serial list like this: W, X, Y and Z versus: W, X, Y or Z It’s awkward to read and understand these sorts of lists, because you have to read the whole list and not know until you reach the end whether it’s an AND list or an OR list. Then, once I know that, I have to go and re-read the sentence again to understand it right. Spelling out “W and X and Y and Z”, or “W or X or Y or Z” makes it clear right from the start – but it’s tediously verbose. We need a grammatical construct to write AND and OR lists that fixes this. Something like putting the AND or OR at the beginning of the list: W and X, Y, Z versus: W or X, Y, Z