# X-Men 2 question, spoilers no doubt **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 9, 2003, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-2-question-spoilers-no-doubt/174214 "2003-05-09T22:34:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-2-question-spoilers-no-doubt/174214/41 "2003-05-11T21:48:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Krokodil \* > \*\*Regarding the movie’s end: > > Jean Grey got killed? Just when she was manifesting some incredible power boost that looked a bit like fire? Damn! 'Cause you don’t come back after something like that happens to you! \*\* Regarding a refutation of what you surmise regarding the movie’s end, if you care to see it… [spoiler]In the comics, Jean gets possessed by a powerful entity known as the Phoenix, which is a fire-like based creature chock full of psionic power. At first, Jean just seems to employ greater and greater proficiency in psi powers, but then the Phoenix finally gains control of Jean and exerts its own personality, eventually to the detriment of Jean. And so, when Jean dissolves into fire at the end of the movie, this could be the work of the Phoenix, which means Jean will come back, and the plot will be about saving her soul. OTOH, the final narration of the movie was by Jean as she talked about sudden mutations that represent a quantum leap in evolution. And so, she could come back evolved, which would then require a plot involving saving her from the hubris of being a new god among mortals – the same thing Magneto represents, only to a much higher power. Either way, in the final shot of the lake, there is the faint outline of a whitish bird figure in the water, which, in the comics, is the shape of the Phoenix. Jean is not gone. This is comic-world. No one is ever truly gone-gone.[/spoiler] Peace. ---
**Author:** ![Nichol\_storm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Nichol\_storm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nichol_storm)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2003, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-2-question-spoilers-no-doubt/174214/42 "2003-05-11T22:36:19Z")
I just returned from seeing _X2_ and here are my thoughts on the movie… **Jason Stryker** – pretty obvious take-off of Jason Wyngarde, aka Mastermind, from the comics. Singer and Co. kept Wyngarde’s first name and powers, and added a new backstory. I found him creepy as hell. Also, considering Wyngarde’s relationship with Jean-as-Phoenix in the comics, I have a sneaking suspicion Jason somehow survived the dam’s destruction and will be returning in the sequel to torment Jean and the X-Men. **Pyro** – I thought he improved a lot in this movie. He was very briefly present in the first X-Men movie (though played by a different actor) as a student who shows off his flame powers to Rogue in the classroom. In the comics, he was a bad guy from day one. **Storm** – Another big improvement. Actually develops a little character in her interaction with Kurt, and we find out that she’s filled with rage (an understandable emotion, considering). She’s more in control of herself than Pyro, another vengeful mutant, however. It’s interesting to see all the mutants in the movie who are dead in the comics – both Colossus (the kid who turns to metal) and Pyro (flame-thrower) died of Legacy in the comics, and Magneto is currently deceased as well. Of course, Cyclops was killed off after the first movie as well, and then brought back, so that might not mean anything. Now the only thing I’m mad about is that _X3_ is years away! Wah! .:Nichol:. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-2-question-spoilers-no-doubt/174214/43 "2003-05-12T00:22:40Z")
> [@](#): > > He was very briefly present in the first X-Men movie (though played by a different actor) as a student who shows off his flame powers to Rogue in the classroom. In the comics, he was a bad guy from day one. Well, there are several mutants with that sort of power. And indeed, the fact that the X1 kid appeared to generate fire out of thin air speaks against it being Pyro (though they used the same “ball” effect.) Magneto has been dead many times before. Unfortunately, this time they gave him a great send-off, so when they bring him back again, it’ll really suck. The problem with Mags is that for awhile he’ll be a very interesting shades-of-gray character… and then another writer wil get a hold of him and he’ll become a one-dimensional raging psychopath again. There was some insane retcon a while back, in fact, where it was revealed that he wasn’t even realy Erik Lenssher or something: that was all a forgery. What the heck was up with that? ---
**Author:** ![Nichol\_storm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Nichol\_storm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nichol_storm)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-2-question-spoilers-no-doubt/174214/44 "2003-05-12T00:46:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Apos \* > **Well, there are several mutants with that sort of power. And indeed, the fact that the X1 kid appeared to generate fire out of thin air speaks against it being Pyro (though they used the same “ball” effect.)** Rewatch the first movie. The kid had a lighter, and Storm specifically calls him John. .:Nichol:. ---
**Author:** ![Nichol\_storm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Nichol\_storm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nichol_storm)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-2-question-spoilers-no-doubt/174214/45 "2003-05-12T00:48:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Apos \* > \*\*Well, there are several mutants with that sort of power. And indeed, the fact that the X1 kid appeared to generate fire out of thin air speaks against it being Pyro (though they used the same “ball” effect.) > > Magneto has been dead many times before. Unfortunately, this time they gave him a great send-off, so when they bring him back again, it’ll really suck. The problem with Mags is that for awhile he’ll be a very interesting shades-of-gray character… and then another writer wil get a hold of him and he’ll become a one-dimensional raging psychopath again. There was some insane retcon a while back, in fact, where it was revealed that he wasn’t even realy Erik Lenssher or something: that was all a forgery. What the heck was up with that? \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-2-question-spoilers-no-doubt/174214/46 "2003-05-12T00:50:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Terrifel \* > **At the very least, it’s going to be several pages down on the list of add-ons, after thermal vision, improved reflexes, and fart suppression.** Logan was chosen for the Weapon X project because he came pre-equipped with a massive healing factor (meaning he’d survive the process), enhanced senses, and fairly massive strength. Making his bones indestructable (including his skull - the scene where he’s shot in the head…the bullet went in way too far, IMO) pretty much makes HIM indestructable. Giving him the retractable claws gives him a lethal and easily hidden weapon. Add both of those to his prexisting powers, and you’ve got one hell of a killing machine. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-2-question-spoilers-no-doubt/174214/47 "2003-05-12T02:20:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tengu \* > \*\*Logan was chosen for the Weapon X project because he came pre-equipped with a massive healing factor (meaning he’d survive the process), enhanced senses, and fairly massive strength. > > Making his bones indestructable (including his skull - the scene where he’s shot in the head…the bullet went in way too far, IMO) pretty much makes HIM indestructable. Giving him the retractable claws gives him a lethal and easily hidden weapon. Add both of those to his prexisting powers, and you’ve got one hell of a killing machine. \*\* Well, this is kind of my point; given that Logan is _already_ pretty much ready-made for combat, subjecting him to a massively invasive experimental surgical procedure to prevent him from breaking bones (which presumably would have healed almost instantly anyway) seems like gilding the lily at best. Yes, I readily concede that an adamantium-reinforced skull does come in handy when shot in the head, but weighed against the overall risks of the bonding procedure, it really seems more sensible to make do with a Kevlar skullcap or something. Injecting hot liquid metal into the pores of your skull frankly seems like overkill. This would be kind of like if James Bond discovered that his hair was thinning a bit on top, got worried that a bald spot might decrease his ability to seduce women, and decided to allow Q to treat his head with gamma rays or something in the hopes that the radiation might reactivate the follicles. In the end, it all boils down to cost-benefit analysis. It’s kind of a shame that **X2** didn’t have a little flashback depicting the aftermath of Wolverine’s involvement with the Weapon X project. I imagine it went something like this: THE KING OF CANADA: General Stryker, it’s time to activate your top-secret “Weapon X” assassin. I’m sick of all these Canadian jokes, so I want your man to sneak into the White House and decapitate the President. That’ll show them we mean business. STRYKER: Ah…yes, well…you know, I’ve been wanting to talk to you about that…there’s been a slight…er, setback, nothing major really… THE KING OF CANADA: What? We’ve been funneling kajillions of dollars into this program for years now. I was told that you were finally ready to go. What about that Wolverine fellow? I understand he’s got a massive healing factor, enhanced senses, and fairly massive strength… STRYKER: Well, yes…actually, it’s funny you should bring up Wolverine…by the way, did I ever mention that I’ve discovered the secret of creating liquid adamantium? THE KING OF CANADA: Sigh…only about a billion times… STRYKER: Yes, well, I was thinking the other day, _what would happen if he were to somehow break a bone?_ Or what if he found himself in a situation without his special bulletproof hat? And, well, it so happened that we had a batch of liquid adamantium just _sitting there…_ THE KING OF CANADA: Oh, my God… STRYKER: Look, it’s no problem, really…as far as we can tell, he’s fine; it turns out the adamantium _did_ kill off all his brain cells, but they regenerated instantly due to his healing factor. Granted, this did have the effect of totally wiping his memory, causing him to go berserk, kill our research staff, and run off into the woods naked. But we’re fairly sure we can track him down and retrain him in no time at all. This time, we’ll keep him locked up in a special cage, the bars of which are cast from liquid adamantium–did I mention that I know how to do that? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-2-question-spoilers-no-doubt/174214/48 "2003-05-12T07:58:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Apos \* > \*\*Well, there are several mutants with that sort of power. And indeed, the fact that the X1 kid appeared to generate fire out of thin air speaks against it being Pyro \*\* Though not as much as his being specifically named as Pyro by Bryan Singer weighs against it. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-2-question-spoilers-no-doubt/174214/49 "2003-05-12T08:20:36Z")
**Terrifel** wrote: > [@](#): > > They spend fifty kajillion Canadian dollars, create a huge underground research lab, go to all the trouble of processing and refining liquid adamantium, locate the one mutant on the planet who can survive the bonding process, and for what? To give him harder bones. Forget it, Jake. It’s Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2003, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-2-question-spoilers-no-doubt/174214/50 "2003-05-12T11:15:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Apos \* > \*\* There was some insane retcon a while back, in fact, where it was revealed that he wasn’t even realy Erik Lenssher or something: that was all a forgery. What the heck was up with that? \*\* It was a damn good fix for the idiotic “Eric Lenssher” fuckup. For 15-20 years Magneto was Eric Magus, Jewish Concentration Camp survivor. There was incredible detail given about his Jewishness, down to the specific _job_ he had in the Camp (which was only given to Jews…Romany specifically _weren’t_ given this job. See [here](http://www.alara.net/opeople/xbooks/magjew.html) for an exhaustive history about this). Then some moron came along and threw it all out in one issue to make him “Eric Lenssher: Gypsy NOT Jew!” (sp) for reasons unexplained. (note that the idiot continuity screw-up of “Eric Lenssher:Gypsy NOT Jew!” only lasted about 4-5 years: X-Men Unlimited #2 ('93) to X-Men #72 ('98) The “Eric Lenssher was a hoax” thing was a darned good attempt to pull the “…and everyone woke up and it was all a dream.” to a really stupid continuity and history screw-up. Fenris [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-2-question-spoilers-no-doubt/174214.md?page=2)