# X-Men 3 inspired question about Mutant Classes (mild spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 30, 2006, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-3-inspired-question-about-mutant-classes-mild-spoilers/358785 "2006-05-30T20:04:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2006, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-3-inspired-question-about-mutant-classes-mild-spoilers/358785/41 "2006-05-31T14:01:39Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > On topic with the OP: IIRC, Jean was a pretty powerful telepath/telekinetic by herself before the Phoenix took over–maybe a Class 4, at Xavier’s level. Maybe I’m mis-remembering, though… Unfortunately, her habit of Phoenixing every so often makes it hard to tell exactly what her power level really is. Where does Jean end and the Phoenix begin in other words. I’m going to say that she was at least Xavier level if not an outright omega. The last time Jean became Phoenix, it was because Wolverine killed her with his claws. She had to die to come back in full cosmic glory. She was pretty potent before then. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2006, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-3-inspired-question-about-mutant-classes-mild-spoilers/358785/42 "2006-05-31T14:15:19Z")
It’s been stated as canon time and again that Xavier is the single most powerful human telepath on Earth (or he was before getting de-powered in House of M). He’s taken on Phoenix one-on-one at least once and won, in X-Men 136. He notes that he won only because “Jean herself” helped him, but as it turned out that was actually the Phoenix Force in a duplicate of Jean’s body and not actually Jean. Since Jean sans Phoenix was around both before and after that battle and Xavier was continually referred to as the most powerful telepath on Earth, I’m gonna go with Marvel’s on repeated statement and put Jean sans Phoenix at a lower level of telepathic ability than Xavier. Overall though J-s-P more powerful than Xavier because she’s also a telekinetic. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2006, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-3-inspired-question-about-mutant-classes-mild-spoilers/358785/43 "2006-05-31T14:29:23Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > As I understand it, immortality has always been an omega level ability. Based on the Omega wiki, Apocalypse - who has immortality (if not such strict bodily immortality as Mr I), and a host of other powers - is, by his own admission, only an Alpha, so that’s clearly not the case. (And Poccy’s not the kind to downplay his power level.) If Poccy’s not an Omega, Iceman and Mr I certainly shouldn’t be higher than Alpha. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2006, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-3-inspired-question-about-mutant-classes-mild-spoilers/358785/44 "2006-05-31T14:37:05Z")
As someone who dropped out of comics in the early 90’s… What’s all this about Iceman being one of the super-duper powers? How is that even a little bit crazy? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2006, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-3-inspired-question-about-mutant-classes-mild-spoilers/358785/45 "2006-05-31T14:51:18Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > If Poccy’s not an Omega, Iceman and Mr I certainly shouldn’t be higher than Alpha. Apocalypse’s mutant power is immortality, in that he is immune to the effects of passing time; he won’t die of old age. It also makes him extremly difficult to kill, but he can be killed, unlike Mr. Immortal. All his other “powers” come from the technology he has, which IIRC are from a spaceship he found? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2006, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-3-inspired-question-about-mutant-classes-mild-spoilers/358785/46 "2006-05-31T14:56:58Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Hell, Spider-Man trashed the new X-Men in Secret Wars without breaking a sweat. No, he ESCAPED from them without breaking a sweat. I agree that he could take Wolverine, Nightcrawler, and Cyclops without too much difficulty, and possibly Storm and Rogue–but in an all-out battle, Colossus and Rogue would be major problems for him. And as a group–sorry, I just don’t buy it. Spidey won that encounter because his aim was simply to GET OUT OF THE ROOM and report the X-men’s (supposed) treachery to the other heroes; because they were in an enclosed space (keeping Storm from going full force, and restricting Rogue’s acceleration room), and because he had at least ten times the reaction time of anyone there, he succeeded. (Besides, he ultimately lost, as Xavier mindwiped him.) ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2006, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-3-inspired-question-about-mutant-classes-mild-spoilers/358785/47 "2006-05-31T14:59:42Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Oops, my mistake. Looks like it was [issue 3](http://www.toymania.com/archives/secretwars/swc3.shtml) and it ended with Professor X mind-raping…excuse me, mind-_wiping_ Spider-Man so he couldn’t spill their plans to join up with Magneto. You had it right the first time. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2006, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-3-inspired-question-about-mutant-classes-mild-spoilers/358785/48 "2006-05-31T16:49:45Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Oops, my mistake. Looks like it was [issue 3](http://www.toymania.com/archives/secretwars/swc3.shtml) and it ended with Professor X mind-raping…excuse me, mind-_wiping_ Spider-Man so he couldn’t spill their plans to join up with Magneto. There’s a no-prize in there, because in issue #8, Spidey (nyah!) tangles with Titania and kicks her ass, while commenting along the lines of “With a little room to maneuver, nobody can lay a hand on me. Not the Absorbing Man [who’d taken a swing at Spidey earlier in the issue], not the X-Men, and not you.” You can explain it away by saying Xavier felt guilty about wiping Spidey’s memories and consciously or subconsciously restored them. Heck, early on, Xavier himself could only read people within a two-mile radius, though this was casually ignored when convenient, as when he mentally followed the battle aboard [Asteroid M](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_M), Magneto’s orbiting headquarters, back in _X-Men_ #5 (May 1964). ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2006, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-3-inspired-question-about-mutant-classes-mild-spoilers/358785/49 "2006-05-31T17:19:10Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Heck, early on, Xavier himself could only read people within a two-mile radius, though this was casually ignored when convenient, as when he mentally followed the battle aboard [Asteroid M](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_M), Magneto’s orbiting headquarters, back in _X-Men_ #5 (May 1964). At some point he learned to use the Earth’s magnetic force lines to increase the range of his telepathy (how this would help him read minds that are in orbit is unclear). Magneto made some subtle shift to those lines, which reduced Xavier’s range and caused him to have “static.” ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2006, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-3-inspired-question-about-mutant-classes-mild-spoilers/358785/50 "2006-05-31T17:20:58Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > (how this would help him read minds that are in orbit is unclear). Van Allen Belts extend much beyond normal orbit. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2006, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-3-inspired-question-about-mutant-classes-mild-spoilers/358785/51 "2006-05-31T17:40:18Z")
> [@Epimetheus](#): > > Van Allen Belts extend much beyond normal orbit. And when you’re as old as Professor X, they get pulled up really high. ---
**Author:** ![Sean\_Factotum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Sean\_Factotum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sean_Factotum)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2006, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-3-inspired-question-about-mutant-classes-mild-spoilers/358785/52 "2006-05-31T20:25:20Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Yeah, well, in the movie Phoenix was sort of an afterthought and a plot device rather than a character. But what about at the end of _X2_ - the shot of Jean lying curled up at the bottom of the new lake and the Phoenix-like cloud/mist traveling across the surface of the water just before the end credits? It looked to me like Jean/Phoenix was being set up as a major plot device even then. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2006, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-3-inspired-question-about-mutant-classes-mild-spoilers/358785/53 "2006-05-31T20:47:44Z")
> [@Sean Factotum](#): > > But what about at the end of _X2_ - the shot of Jean lying curled up at the bottom of the new lake and the Phoenix-like cloud/mist traveling across the surface of the water just before the end credits? It looked to me like Jean/Phoenix was being set up as a major plot device even then. Oh, I’m not doubting that. I saw it and knew where they were headed, too. However… In **X3** Jean Grey and the Phoenix were nothing more than a plot point. Magneto would egg her on and she would do whatever it was he wanted her to do, whether it was resisting Xavier (killing Xavier was more than he expected, but what are you going to do?) or wigging out and demolishing Alcatraz. She didn’t **DO** anything else in the movie but follow Magneto around. So, IMO, she was a walking plot point, not a character. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2006, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-3-inspired-question-about-mutant-classes-mild-spoilers/358785/54 "2006-05-31T21:14:23Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > She didn’t **DO** anything else in the movie but follow Magneto around. So, IMO, she was a walking plot point, not a character. > > -Joe True, but then again no one really _did_ anything in the movie, it all just sorta happened as a string of walking plot points. Magneto gave a couple speeches and moved a bridge and that’s about it. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2006, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-3-inspired-question-about-mutant-classes-mild-spoilers/358785/55 "2006-06-01T12:40:35Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > True, but then again no one really _did_ anything in the movie, it all just sorta happened as a string of walking plot points. Magneto gave a couple speeches and moved a bridge and that’s about it. Well, can’t really argue against that one. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2006, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-3-inspired-question-about-mutant-classes-mild-spoilers/358785/56 "2006-06-01T13:08:50Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > Cyclops has stayed pretty much the same. Incorrect. Cyclops got a massive power boost after his powers recovered by being drained by Krakoa. Previously his optic blasts were strong, but afterward he was able to blast through mountains with them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-3-inspired-question-about-mutant-classes-mild-spoilers/358785.md?page=2)