# X-men ad violence against women? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 3, 2016, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429 "2016-06-03T21:33:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/21 "2016-06-04T02:25:28Z")
> [@spamforbrains](#): > > I don’t think it was a conscious decision, but it does kind of reveal the thinking/biases of the people who make these kinds of movies. Or possibly it was a conscious decision to appeal to the misogyny of the typical fan. This is exactly the kind of passive aggressive shlock we are getting on FB. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/22 "2016-06-04T02:33:17Z")
It’s the tagline that really clinches it: “Only the strong will survive.” Because it can be misinterpreted as a man/woman thing, instead of a superhero mutant thing, see? That, combined with the image. Is it worth a full turnout of the offenderati, and a full-on debate about sexism and violence against women? Obviously not, IMO. That’s why I didn’t actually see the unfortunate implications at first, even after reading the article, and starting yakking about the Wolverine thing. I thought the real problem was something more subtle and interesting. Not simply the woman and the tagline. I was confused by the overreaction. It’s like if someone approached my fish/schlong painting, and instantly flew into a rage about how I clearly needed therapy for being such a sick pervert. I would start looking for the hidden raped baby in the painting, and still miss the schlong. It’s just a schlong. I meant it as a fish. I’ll remove the painting. It’s unfortunate and a bit embarrassing, but please put away the pitchforks. I don’t rape babies. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/23 "2016-06-04T02:55:15Z")
Everything I know about the character Mystique, and nearly everything I know about the _X-Men_ franchise, comes from having seen _X2_ as an in-flight movie circa 2003. I’ve forgotten a lot about it, but I do remember there was a blue woman who didn’t wear much in the way of clothing and she was one of the villains. I hadn’t heard anything about this billboard prior to this thread, but if I’d seen it without reading the OP’s description of it as depicting a heroic moment for Mystique then I think I would have interpreted the message of the billboard as basically “Come see that blue bitch finally get what’s coming to her!” I’m not opposed to female villains being hurt or killed in movies, but I’d prefer not to see _anyone_ getting choked on a billboard, even if they’re a villain and/or not exactly human. And this particular image, which depicts great big man (or masculine humanoid) in armor choking a much smaller, and seemingly naked, woman (or feminine humanoid) with a tagline reading “Only the strong will survive”, strikes me as unusually nasty and violent even for an action movie advertisement. I gather from this thread that Mystique turned good at some point and the villain is actually the grey man, but I would never have gotten that from the billboard itself. Knowing that I’d guess that the _intent_ behind this billboard was something like “Come see how Mystique defeats this seemingly much stronger enemy!”, but it’s still an unpleasant image. The scene in the movie may come across very differently, but they’re presumably not putting up billboards to remind people who’ve _already_ seen the movie what happened in it. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/24 "2016-06-04T02:58:43Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > she was one of the villains. She’s not really a villain. She’s not heroic, but she is sympathetic. The X-men franchise is all about grey/grey morality. Competing ideologies. If there’s a villain, it’s wider society. But again, that doesn’t matter, because this has nothing to do with Mystique. The entire kerfuffle is about how there is an alternative interpretation of the poster, if you know nothing about the character, and take the whole thing out of context. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/25 "2016-06-04T03:16:23Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > In a Pit thread recently, someone denounced C.S. Lewis’ “A Horse and His Boy” as racist, because the bad guys have dark skin. (A little more to it than that, but not much more.) > > Does this mean that no science-fiction writer dare ever create a fictional dark skinned race of bad guys? They wouldn’t be humans at all; “race” as we know it would be totally irrelevant. But the charges of racism would (likely) be made. > > Also, if the figures on the billboard were reversed, and some group of Men’s Rights Activists complained…who’d take them seriously? There is an asymmetry here, and it warrants discussion. I occasionally read articles and commentaries about how under-represented women are in all the big action movie blockbusters that have come out over the last few years. And just in numerical terms, they’re probably right. But it always seems to be about getting more roles where women are the heroes. No one seems to be pushing for them to also be the villains, the victims, or the fools. I don’t think there’s just one asymmetry here, there are several. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/26 "2016-06-04T03:31:49Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > . . . But it always seems to be about getting more roles where women are the heroes. No one seems to be pushing for them to also be the villains, the victims, or the fools. I don’t think there’s just one asymmetry here, there are several. We need much more of all of the above. Women (and ethnic minorities, and categorical minorities like the LGBT) need to have wider access to all roles. Villains are fun, just to start with, and a good villainous role is a short-cut to great fame. Fools allow for broad melodramatic “character acting.” Our day and age doesn’t seem to value the “character actor” the way we did in decades past, which is a bit of a shame. But such a typecasting was 90% men and 10% women, and that also is a bad thing. Also, having women and minorities cast as villains multiplies the opportunities for faking out the audience when it comes to big surprise endings! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/27 "2016-06-04T03:34:58Z")
> [@spamforbrains](#): > > well, these cartoons are extremely sexist from the get-go. The female characters all wear practically nothing but body-damaging high heels and appear to have all opted for some serious plastic surgery. > Why, out of all of the possible images they could have chosen to promote this movie, did they select a female-appearing character being choked? Some kind of unconscious thought process is my best guess. I don’t think it was a conscious decision, but it does kind of reveal the thinking/biases of the people who make these kinds of movies. Or possibly it was a conscious decision to appeal to the misogyny of the typical fan. Jennifer Lawrence is a very popular actor right now. I imagine that was a factor in choosing to put her face on billboards. Or maybe her agent negotiated for that as part of her contract. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/28 "2016-06-04T03:40:52Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > We need much more of all of the above. Women (and ethnic minorities, and categorical minorities like the LGBT) need to have wider access to all roles. Agreed, but do you ever hear people push for it the way they push for women to be the heroes? ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/29 "2016-06-04T03:47:30Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > She’s not really a villain. She’s not heroic, but she is sympathetic. The X-men franchise is all about grey/grey morality. Competing ideologies. If there’s a villain, it’s wider society. > > But again, that doesn’t matter, because this has nothing to do with Mystique. The entire kerfuffle is about how there is an alternative interpretation of the poster, if you know nothing about the character, and take the whole thing out of context. As much as I appreciate the explanation of what this thread is about, I suspect it might do more good if you directed it at the poster who totally ignored everything I just wrote about interpreting the billboard and instead responded to a few words about something that doesn’t matter anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/30 "2016-06-04T03:57:51Z")
… NM, been covered. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/31 "2016-06-04T04:21:12Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > As much as I appreciate the explanation of what this thread is about, I suspect it might do more good if you directed it at the poster who totally ignored everything I just wrote about interpreting the billboard and instead responded to a few words about something that doesn’t matter anyway. I have no idea what just happened here. But I apologize if you took that the wrong way. I mostly just wanted to talk about Mystique as a character for a moment. It’s more interesting than Facebook outrage. Can we make the thread about that instead? I’m all for it. ---
**Author:** ![Yumblie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/76d3ee/32.png) [@Yumblie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yumblie)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/32 "2016-06-04T04:34:53Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Agreed, but do you ever hear people push for it the way they push for women to be the heroes? It’s probably because a movie will usually have more heroes than villains, so it seems like it’d be easier to push for more representation among the heroes. Incidentally, there was a bit of an outcry recently over the news that the villain for Iron Man 3 was changed from a woman to man due to toy concerns. As for the billboard, I wouldn’t have made the negative association, but that might be my own biases. As was mentioned, I find it difficult to imagine them making that same billboard with one of the male heroes being strangled and helpless. If you’re ever wondering if the portrayal of a woman in something is awkward or offensive, just imagine the genders switched and see if it makes a big difference. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/33 "2016-06-04T04:41:09Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > That could be any blue woman getting choked by an… alien… pharaoh? > > Even if you don’t know who Mystique is or have context, there’s still obviously something more going on here than just “Some dude is choking a woman”. Speaking of, from the article: > > Only in Hollywood are nine year olds saying “committing violence against a woman” instead of “hurting her” or “choking her” or “grabbing her” or any other normal way to describe what’s going on. Anyway, the obvious answer to this deep philosophical question is “Well, because he IS a monster man and a bad guy and the X-Men are going to try to stop him from hurting anyone else.” I thought the obvious answer is because good people give bad people a chance to prove they’re actually bad. And then, when they proved it, the good guy kicks the bad man’s ass. And that’s the next scene in the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/34 "2016-06-04T04:43:27Z")
I’m reminded of the picture at the top of this article: > **[Yes! Sigourney Weaver WILL star as Ripley in the new Alien film](https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/559248/Alien-5-sequel-Neill-Blomkamp-Sigourney-Weaver)** > > ALIEN 5 is finally happening with District 9 and Chappie director Neill Blomkamp - and Sigourney Weaver is on board as Ellen Ripley Any male versions? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/35 "2016-06-04T04:48:27Z")
> [@Yumblie](#): > > As for the billboard, I wouldn’t have made the negative association, but that might be my own biases. As was mentioned, I find it difficult to imagine them making that same billboard with one of the male heroes being strangled and helpless. If you’re ever wondering if the portrayal of a woman in something is awkward or offensive, just imagine the genders switched and see if it makes a big difference. Well, not a billboard and not strangled – but haven’t the commercials prominently featured Charles Xavier throwing a punch at Apocalypse, and getting his fist caught instead, and then being gripped about the chest and slammed to the floor? ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/36 "2016-06-04T05:09:59Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I’m reminded of the picture at the top of this article: > > [Alien 5 sequel Neill Blomkamp: Sigourney Weaver and Prometheus updates | Films | Entertainment | Express.co.uk](http://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/559248/Alien-5-sequel-Neill-Blomkamp-Sigourney-Weaver) > > Any male versions? [![](https://i.imgur.com/QLCqVKm.jpg) ](https://i.imgur.com/QLCqVKm.jpg) I get what the people upset over the image are talking about but it does seem more a way for celebrities to be _seen_ to be doing something, rather than actually doing something. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/37 "2016-06-04T05:24:18Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I’m reminded of the picture at the top of this article: > > [Alien 5 sequel Neill Blomkamp: Sigourney Weaver and Prometheus updates | Films | Entertainment | Express.co.uk](http://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/559248/Alien-5-sequel-Neill-Blomkamp-Sigourney-Weaver) > > Any male versions? Hey. Did you just accuse Ripley, of all people, of being a damsel in distress? She’ll smoke you with a flamethrower. How much alien behind does a person have to kick to get some respect around here? It’s been a rough franchise for her. I think she’s allowed a moment of weakness. A bit of vulnerability. And so, frankly, is Mystique. Cut them some slack. They’re only human. Take things out of context, and you have a less interesting discussion. But things have context. If we’re now at the point where “action girl” is the only acceptable way to show women, _even women who are action girls most of the week_, then we may not be doing ourselves any favors. Our stories will get more boring. It’s like with dating profiles. You’re not allowed a second of loneliness or vulnerability, or you’re somehow letting your gender down. It all has to be wall-to-wall skydiving pictures. (Sorry, sage **Sage Rat** , that wasn’t directed at you, in case that wasn’t clear. Nothing personal.) ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/38 "2016-06-04T05:26:08Z")
Only fat, privileged Americans could make a billboard of a film of an ancient mutant super-villain throttling another mutant into…“a thing”. I seriously doubt 1/100th of the energy used in this argument is used by the same people in decrying the real life alliances the US have with truly evil regimes. Its much easier to cry about the ‘casual violence’ implied by fictional characters. Prove to me the majority of the people who whine about a billboard devote as much energy to shouting down our middle eastern allies who have true misogyny imbedded in their culture and ill retract the statement. Edit: I suppose i should post SOMETHING on topic: What… women are immune to the Worf Effect??? Mystique is a badass. Getting owned by Apocalypse shows he’s the real deal. Any crying about it fetishizing violence against women in general is silly. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/39 "2016-06-04T06:06:27Z")
So choking a woman is worse than choking a man? How? ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/40 "2016-06-04T06:19:53Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > So choking a woman is worse than choking a man? How? No, choking a woman is not worse than choking a man. But a picture of a man choking a woman has certain connotations that choking a man does not, the same way a white man whipping a black man has connotations that a white man whipping another white man does not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429.md?page=3)