# X-men ad violence against women? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 3, 2016, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429 "2016-06-03T21:33:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/61 "2016-06-04T18:57:52Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Yeah, it’s interesting that a woman who made a career of parading her naked ass on film is upset about a grey male strangling a blue female. No double standards there. Well, I also hear that with age and experience, people are apt to grow up, change and mature. Perhaps in the intervening years, Rose has learned some things that have shaped her views differently. I’m shocked, shocked, I tell you that this appears to have happened. As to the poster itself, I’m meh on the outrage, but I can certainly take their point. To me, it’s just a stupid billboard regardless. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/62 "2016-06-04T19:13:44Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Wolverine taking a horrendous beating and not dying is his major superpower, so putting some of these things on a cover is a bit like putting a picture of Superman lifting a car on the cover of one his books. Wolverine is an interesting dude. He’s always hurting. He’s just one big scar. He’s hurting even when he’s sitting around watching television. Superman is \*never \*hurting. Well, maybe once in a blue moon. But then it’s the Worff effect. He’s not hurting when he’s watching the Simpsons. And when he gets smacked around, he bounces back. We know he’ll win. Wolverine doesn’t really bounce back, as such. He just becomes more callused. He can’t die, though. So when he’s in peril or getting stabbed to death, he’s not in danger, as such. The dude has regenerated from a single drop of blood. He has come back from a nuclear explosion. It’s more like his life is constant torture. So it’s torture porn. Mystique is really neither of those. She’s in some proper peril there. We know she is strong. But she is destructible. She may not survive. Heroes die for real in the X-men movies all the time, at least in some timelines. The world will probably survive, but Mystique personally may not. Whether that has anything to do with her being a woman, I don’t know. It might have. Although I’m sure there are properly indestructible lady superheroes, too. I’m no comic book expert. Examples are welcome. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/63 "2016-06-04T19:14:06Z")
I get that many people don’t care about this poster or see anything wrong with it. What I don’t get is why those same people would _disparage_ others for expressing concerns about it. OMG! Someone thinks differently than me! Heathens! ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/64 "2016-06-04T19:20:30Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > I get that many people don’t care about this poster or see anything wrong with it. What I don’t get is why those same people would _disparage_ others for expressing concerns about it. > OMG! Someone thinks differently than me! Heathens! They are, perhaps, responding to the tone set by the article linked in the OP? The one where Rose MacGowan says, “The fact that no one flagged this is offensive and frankly, stupid. The geniuses behind this, and I use that term lightly, need to to take a long hard look at the mirror and see how they are contributing to society.” That’s pretty disparaging, don’t you think? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/65 "2016-06-04T19:23:48Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > He can’t die, though. He’s been dead for a little over a year in the comics, now. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/66 "2016-06-04T19:34:51Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > He’s been dead for a little over a year in the comics, now. Really? How did that happen? What killed him? ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/67 "2016-06-04T19:35:49Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > They are, perhaps, responding to the tone set by the article linked in the OP? The one where Rose MacGowan says, “The fact that no one flagged this is offensive and frankly, stupid. The geniuses behind this, and I use that term lightly, need to to take a long hard look at the mirror and see how they are contributing to society.” > > That’s pretty disparaging, don’t you think? It wasn’t immediately clear to me that the posts were directed at some random actress in a link rather than anyone who might dare to agree that the image is troublesome. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/68 "2016-06-04T20:07:03Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > Really? How did that happen? What killed him? Lost his healing factor, then got coated in molten adamantium. > [@sachertorte](#): > > It wasn’t immediately clear to me that the posts were directed at some random actress in a link rather than anyone who might dare to agree that the image is troublesome. I’m not saying they’re responding directly to MacGowan, I’m just pointing out that the hostility is not coming entirely from one side of the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/69 "2016-06-04T20:09:05Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Lost his healing factor, then got coated in molten adamantium. I hate it when that happens. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/70 "2016-06-04T21:08:27Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Agreed, but do you ever hear people push for it the way they push for women to be the heroes? So far, just you and me… ☹ ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/71 "2016-06-04T21:38:41Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’m not saying they’re responding directly to MacGowan, I’m just pointing out that the hostility is not coming entirely from one side of the discussion. Are we talking about people here? Or out there? I’m pretty sure MacGowan doesn’t post here. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/72 "2016-06-04T21:40:04Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > But then I tried to imagine that picture with Wolverine in Mystique’s place. And that’s a picture I’m having a hard time seeing on a poster. It would look pretty silly with him in that pose. So maybe there is something going on there. That’s really what it comes down to, you will never see a poster like this featuring a man. Captain America is in almost the exact position in Age of Ultron, but that would never make it to a poster. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/73 "2016-06-04T21:49:11Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > That’s really what it comes down to, you will never see a poster like this featuring a man. Captain America is in almost the exact position in Age of Ultron, but that would never make it to a poster. Yeah. But then again, as I said, does it have to be an awful image just because it can’t have man in it? You’ll never see [this](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1e/PregnancyPact2010Poster.jpg/250px-PregnancyPact2010Poster.jpg) featuring a man, either. Or, hang on. I [may](http://www.inbedwithjoan.com.au/wp-content/uploads/pregnant-man-Junior.jpg) be wrong about that. Also, [this](http://www.demotivationalposters.org/image/demotivational-poster/1001/heres-johnny-alien-chestburster-the-shining-bloody-sci-fi-demotivational-poster-1264729164.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/74 "2016-06-04T22:06:00Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Go back to my example of Indiana Jones. Do you think an image of Indy whipping a black man, with no context, would be a good choice for an ad? If not, why? > > Do you see any parallels between an image of a white man whipping a black man, and a man choking a woman? If not, why do you feel it is different - why is one image fine but the other one isn’t? To be honest, if I saw that I’d automatically probably think it’s another slavery film before realizing it was an Indiana Jones film. Then once realizing it’s an Indiana Jones film - I’d think the black guy is the antagonist in the film. Then lastly I’d think, oh jezus … people are going to have issues with this. White guy whipping black guy. But honestly seeing this X-Men poster, it wouldn’t of crossed my mind that people are going to have issues with the poster. Even if people have no clue what the X-Men films are. I’d think a poster of a grey guy choking a blue girl can’t be any more obvious that it’s make believe, fantasy, art, sci-fi etc. I understand that this could be traumatizing, and upsetting to women who’s too familiar unfortunately with domestic violence. I have an immediate intense fear reaction when it comes to being exposed to images/videos of great white sharks. My sister is the same. This was back when the movie Jaws was big. When we were very young our asshole stepfather had a lot of good laughs scaring the shit out my sister and I by sliding posters of GW under the bathroom door while taking baths, hanging it in our bedroom, etc… He did this shit repeatedly. Sometimes I can’t avoid being suddenly exposed to GW images. It’s disturbing for me but I survive and move on with my day. My sister and I aren’t going to push for “trigger warnings” for these images in public. That be an unrealistic expectation. Take artists for example that make a gross mockery of Christianity in their art. What do we tell Christians who find that offensive ? It’s art. We have to be careful when we start going down the road of which group should be protected from being offended and which shouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/75 "2016-06-04T22:24:41Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Yes, an obviously male “person” choking an obviously female “person” has domestic violence connotations, despite their costumes. If it doesn’t have such connotations for you, you might consider if this is related to your position and experiences in society. > You’re missing the entire conversation. No one here is arguing that the movie needs to be changed in any way. > > If your mind is already made up on this, cool. I’m not going to be able to change it. But if you’re trying to figure out why some people think the ad is problematic, try asking yourself these questions before you immediately dismiss people’s concerns. > > Go back to my example of Indiana Jones. Do you think an image of Indy whipping a black man, with no context, would be a good choice for an ad? If not, why? > > Do you see any parallels between an image of a white man whipping a black man, and a man choking a woman? If not, why do you feel it is different - why is one image fine but the other one isn’t? But there is context. It’s a comic book film. And anyone seeing it who doesn’t know the context can find it in seconds. So I don’t understand the argument “strip the context”. Why would I do that? ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/76 "2016-06-04T22:25:38Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > What does this even mean? If an actress is OK with nudity, she should also support domestic violence? 😕 Of course. She’s asking for it. (OK, someone is going to take this at face value. Then they’ll sign up to the boards, come in here and kick me in the balls. And then I have to explain sarcasm. I can see it already. And I just grew those balls back after the latest molten adamantium accident.) ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/77 "2016-06-04T23:27:13Z")
OK, so how are Mystique on that billboard and Wonder Woman different? Well, myself, I’m glad you asked. For one thing, Wonder Woman is an Amazon. She’s a caricature. You can just tell that when someone first drew that costume, they really were thinking that she needs a good old torpedo between the legs to sort her out. Hercules needs to show up and take off her girldle. She’s the wild beast that needs taming. She really seems antiquated to me. How you put her in a movie today, or why you would want to, I have no clue, although I heard someone did it recently. Also, I guess she’s still in the comics. Being a rape victim is basically her shtick. It’s her comfort zone. When Wonder Woman gets on the business end of some domestic violence, that’s just her thing. It’s just Tuesday. Mystique, as a character and as a human being, is so totally not in her comfort zone in that picture. She was not expecting that to happen, and she’s not cool with it. And again, she’s a badass. That kind of thing does not usually happen to her, which is why the image is so striking if you know the character even a little bit. (Whatever is going on there, “casual” violence it isn’t. I mean, there’s casual violence all over the X-men, but that picture looks like shit just got serious.) There is rape imagery, but Mystique isn’t going to get “tamed” by Apocalypse any day soon. Screw that guy. She is not marrying him. She doesn’t even have a little bit of a crush on him. How you identify with Wonder Woman in a story, I don’t know. You’re not supposed to, I guess. She’s just a floozy. The entire character just looks all-round offensive to me. (Note: This is just my impression. Again, I’m no comic book expert, so I may talking out of my behind. But I’m risking it.) Mystique is a person. At this point, she has earned the respect of even the geeks. She’s our friend. She’s us. For most everyday purposes, she might as well be a man, and it might not even make a difference. Completely different thing. Even if she is also blue, and Jennifer Lawrence. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/78 "2016-06-04T23:31:07Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > I get that many people don’t care about this poster or see anything wrong with it. What I don’t get is why those same people would _disparage_ others for expressing concerns about it. > OMG! Someone thinks differently than me! Heathens! … and just as soon as Sen. Kelly passes that Heathen Registration Act… (… just kidding… ) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/79 "2016-06-04T23:32:50Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Do you think an image of Indy whipping a black man, with no context, would be a good choice for an ad? If not, why? Well, for one thing, because Indy never actually “whips” people like that. He snaps things out of hands, holds people back, jumps a number of chasms and gaps, hangs from it, grabs & pulls allies with it and has one unfortunate Temple of Doom sequence where a guy is accidentally hung with it (from a ceiling fan!) but he never flays anyone with it. To be fair, I don’t know if Big Guy ever actually grabs Mystique by the neck but I’m guessing they at least engage in actual fisticuffs at some point. Rocky actually punches a black man – would a photo showing Rocky punching a black dude make you think “This must be about slavery”? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2016, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429/80 "2016-06-05T01:53:00Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Sometimes, sure. Here’s some comic covers featuring Wolverine. I did a search on “Wolverine comic covers,” and picked out covers that show Wolverine not just in peril, but helpless or powerless in the face of an enemy: Interesting. I’m still seeing some differences. (BTW, [here’s the cover I was talking about before](http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=39471&disp=ilib&oty=1&oid=60225); I’ll reference it below): -In most of the images you show, Wolverine has claws out. He’s clearly engaging in some asskicking of his own. In the billboard, Mystique has a single, completely ineffective, hand on the hand strangling her; in the Batgirl cover, Batgirl has no defense at all. -In most of those covers, it’s an action scene. Who’s gonna win is dynamic, if you know anything about comics. In the billboard and on the Batgirl cover, it’s not action. -Wolverine appears to be roaring in most of those covers. He’s pissed off. Mystique looks frightened. Batgirl is crying. But you’re correct that I didn’t realize there were that many pictures showing male superheroes in more-or-less helpless situations. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-ad-violence-against-women/756429.md?page=5)