# X-Men Question: Emma Frost/White Queen **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 8, 2005, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-question-emma-frost-white-queen/298341 "2005-04-08T03:57:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2005, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-question-emma-frost-white-queen/298341/21 "2005-04-09T19:20:39Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > What? Who is this dark-haired, wingless chap in the “Angel” comic? That’s definitely not Warren! [I can see some similarities.](http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/sweetvampirespike/buffy/personagens/uvwxyz/warren.JPG) Or were you talking about a different Warren? ---
**Author:** ![Leviosaurus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/439d5e/32.png) [@Leviosaurus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leviosaurus)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2005, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-question-emma-frost-white-queen/298341/22 "2005-04-09T20:19:36Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > I’ll happily take Rob Liefeld at his no-eyeballs/no-feet worst over Quitely. The man got me to sell off my Authority volume 1 singles, which was no small feat. Still not as bad as Bill Sienkiewicz. ---
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2005, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-question-emma-frost-white-queen/298341/23 "2005-04-10T01:27:38Z")
Ugh, I hated Sienkiewicz so hard on his New Mutants run I stopped buying them. But at least he has a “style”. Liefeld’s “style” seems to be to just mutilate proportions at every opportunity, and to make up for it by mercilessly cross hatching and drawing lots of neck tendons. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2005, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-question-emma-frost-white-queen/298341/24 "2005-04-10T06:08:48Z")
Wow! I never met anyone else who doesn’t like Bill Sienkiewicz’s style! Everyone always says he’s a groundbreaking visionary, but I see overly-abstract, surreal, and UGLY art. Kelley Jones, Simon Bisley, Sam Kieth, Jae Lee… add them to my list too! ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2005, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-question-emma-frost-white-queen/298341/25 "2005-04-10T16:35:14Z")
[Dale Keown](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=dale+keown+artwork) was always very hit-or-miss for me, as far as artwork goes. His Hulk was okay, but Pitt looked too much like the Hulk to distinguish Keown as a great artist (IMO). [Sam Keith](http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6517280748&category=70965%22%5B/url) is just about the worst comic book artist I’ve ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2005, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-question-emma-frost-white-queen/298341/26 "2005-04-10T19:05:12Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > Wow! I never met anyone else who doesn’t like Bill Sienkiewicz’s style! Everyone always says he’s a groundbreaking visionary, but I see overly-abstract, surreal, and UGLY art. I must add my agreement, here. The man’s art _stinks_, and more than anything els4e persuaded my to dump that title. ---
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2005, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-question-emma-frost-white-queen/298341/27 "2005-04-10T19:20:18Z")
Funny that you mention Jae Lee **BBVL** , because when I saw his artwork for the first time (Hellshock, I think), I thought to myself “Oh, that’s what Sienkiewicz was _trying_ to do.” I actually like Lee. Especially his Inhumans maxi-series. Although if I was his inker I’d tag on an another 10% for extra ink. ---
**Author:** ![Leviosaurus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/439d5e/32.png) [@Leviosaurus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leviosaurus)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2005, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-question-emma-frost-white-queen/298341/28 "2005-04-10T21:32:17Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > Wow! I never met anyone else who doesn’t like Bill Sienkiewicz’s style! This probably calls for a “Who is the most godawful comic artist ever” thread. A bunch of bad ones have been mentioned already, but if I had to make a top ten list of the worst ever, Bill Sienkiewicz would be numer 1, 2, 5, 7 & 9. His “art” always looked like a clever way of covering up the fact that he couldn’t draw. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-question-emma-frost-white-queen/298341/29 "2005-04-11T13:05:42Z")
> [@Leviosaurus](#): > > Still not as bad as Bill Sienkiewicz. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!?!?!?!? –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-question-emma-frost-white-queen/298341/30 "2005-04-11T14:38:34Z")
I don’t think Bill Sienkiewicz, Jae Lee, or Sam Keith are really _bad_ even if one doesn’t like their respective styles. I mean, Rob Liefeld is _bad_. His storytelling skills are minimal to nonexistent, he shamelessly rips off compositions from other artists, he has exactly three stock body types (man, woman, big man) and two faces (man and woman), etc., etc. I mean, I think Jack Kirby turned out some absolutely hideous work in his time, but it wasn’t really bad. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-question-emma-frost-white-queen/298341/31 "2005-04-11T15:13:24Z")
> [@shy guy](#): > > I mean, Rob Liefeld is _bad_. His storytelling skills are minimal to nonexistent, he shamelessly rips off compositions from other artists, he has exactly three stock body types He couldn’t draw a background to save his life, costume details change from panel to panel (not small stuff like epaulet colors – big stuff, like whether a character has a cape, or sleeves)… > [@](#): > > I mean, I think Jack Kirby turned out some absolutely hideous work in his time, but it wasn’t really bad. **weeps softly** –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Dante](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dante/32/9673_2.png) [@Dante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-question-emma-frost-white-queen/298341/32 "2005-04-11T15:38:54Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > He couldn’t draw a background to save his life, costume details change from panel to panel (not small stuff like epaulet colors – big stuff, like whether a character has a cape, or sleeves)… Maybe he’s trying to harken back to the four colour days, when a colourist would sometimes insert a flesh tone where a costume needed to be. I remember seeing that a number of times in Spider-Man. Made his costume look kind of BDSM. OTOH, he may just be a real crappy artist. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-question-emma-frost-white-queen/298341/33 "2005-04-11T18:37:07Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > **weeps softly** Sorry, but no one’s ever going to be able to convince me that [Captain Victory](http://www.atakra.com/pictures/ebaycomics/magazines/captain_victory07.jpg) and the [New Gods](http://www.comiclink.com/img/comics/scans/RAD1C65A20041221_153732.JPG) (yes, all of them) don’t look like something that somebody puked up. The man was a great artist, but he really needed someone to tell him that some of his ideas sucked and looked like ass. On the subject of truly bad artists, I can’t really think of any other than Liefeld, although it’s easy to find them in the pages of things like quarterly books (Justice League Quarterly - which was a great book, btw - ran the gamut from cool artwork from up-and-comers like Phil Jimenez and Mike Wieringo and absolutely awful art fom people who probably never penciled another book). Of course, a lot of otherwise good artists have issues. Howard Porter can be extremely spotty, Drew Johnson (who just finished his run on Wonder Woman) can’t draw an action scene to save his life, Ethan Van Scrier’s figures are often awkwardly posed or placed within scenes, George Perez should be forbidden by law from ever designing another superhero costume, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Leviosaurus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/439d5e/32.png) [@Leviosaurus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leviosaurus)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-question-emma-frost-white-queen/298341/34 "2005-04-11T19:03:00Z")
> [@shy guy](#): > > Sorry, but no one’s ever going to be able to convince me that [Captain Victory](http://www.atakra.com/pictures/ebaycomics/magazines/captain_victory07.jpg) and the [New Gods](http://www.comiclink.com/img/comics/scans/RAD1C65A20041221_153732.JPG) (yes, all of them) don’t look like something that somebody puked up. Thanks for posting that link to New Gods. That’s the funniest thing I’ve seen all day - it actually made me laugh out loud. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-question-emma-frost-white-queen/298341/35 "2005-04-11T19:28:58Z")
Goofy and cool are the same thing. Ergo, Black Racer = cool. OK, while someone can rationally say that Kirby’s writing left something to be desired (I wouldn’t, but someone might), he was unarguably one of the greatest pencillers the medium has ever seen. Indeed, if it hadn’t been for Kirby the comics landscape of today would be completely different, if they even existed at all. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-question-emma-frost-white-queen/298341/36 "2005-04-11T22:02:34Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > Goofy and cool are the same thing. Ergo, Black Racer = cool. > > OK, while someone can rationally say that Kirby’s writing left something to be desired (I wouldn’t, but someone might), he was unarguably one of the greatest pencillers the medium has ever seen. Indeed, if it hadn’t been for Kirby the comics landscape of today would be completely different, if they even existed at all. > > –Cliffy Ummm…can anybody say “Silver Surfer ripoff”? I _knew_ you could! :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-question-emma-frost-white-queen/298341/37 "2005-04-11T22:57:42Z")
> [@](#): > > OK, while someone can rationally say that Kirby’s writing left something to be desired (I wouldn’t, but someone might), he was unarguably one of the greatest pencillers the medium has ever seen. Indeed, if it hadn’t been for Kirby the comics landscape of today would be completely different, if they even existed at all. No argument here… but that doesn’t mean some of the stuff he churned out didn’t really suck. And I’m thinking of his post-Marvel work, here. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-question-emma-frost-white-queen/298341/38 "2005-04-11T23:35:01Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > Ummm…can anybody say “Silver Surfer ripoff”? Well, he did create the Silver Surfer. –Cliffy [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-men-question-emma-frost-white-queen/298341.md?page=1)