# X-Men's Rogue's "stolen" powers—who WAS "Miss Marvel"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 27, 2003, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-mens-rogues-stolen-powers-who-was-miss-marvel/209802 "2003-10-27T06:31:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2003, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-mens-rogues-stolen-powers-who-was-miss-marvel/209802/21 "2003-10-28T19:47:24Z")
The Siege Perilous was a Ridiculous Plot Device™. Let’s not speak of it again. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2003, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-mens-rogues-stolen-powers-who-was-miss-marvel/209802/22 "2003-10-28T20:00:30Z")
And for that matter, didn’t Jean Grey once go by the name “Ms. Marvel”? You’d think they could think up a few new names, every now and again. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2003, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-mens-rogues-stolen-powers-who-was-miss-marvel/209802/23 "2003-10-28T20:09:15Z")
Nope, Jean Grey originally went by the name “Marvel Girl.” We shall not discuss whether Jean Grey ever went by the name of “Phoenix”… ---
**Author:** ![ResIpsaLoquitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b3f665/32.png) [@ResIpsaLoquitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ResIpsaLoquitor)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2003, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-mens-rogues-stolen-powers-who-was-miss-marvel/209802/24 "2003-10-28T22:01:34Z")
I thought Jean’s present code name was “Jean Grey”…yeah, that’ll fool 'em. WAY more effective than slicking your hair back and wearing glasses. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-mens-rogues-stolen-powers-who-was-miss-marvel/209802/25 "2003-10-29T02:22:31Z")
Funny, I thought the Siege Perilous was what I became when someone annoyed me. If I recall, not long before Jean Grey’s ulimate death on the moon, the Shi’Ar (spelling?) refer to her as Phoenix, to distinguish who she was after she came in contact with that crystal (I can’t remember its name well enough to try to spell it), from who she was before hand. Certainly towards the end, she telekinetically rearranges her clothes into her old Marvel Girl uniform and tells Scott that if she’s to die, she’ll do so as her old self, Marvel Girl, which implies she must have been going by the name “Phoenix”. CJ ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-mens-rogues-stolen-powers-who-was-miss-marvel/209802/26 "2003-10-29T07:08:10Z")
**Siege** I believe that **Otto** was referring to the horrific retcon committed in X Factor #1. It’s revealed that the Phoenix Force never joined with Jean Grey. It duplicated her. The woman who was Phoenix, became Dark Phoenix, and then died was a sort of clone. The real Jean Grey was hibernating in a pod in the shuttle wreckage the whole time. IMO, this ranks up there with ‘All Superman’s powers are psychic.’, and ‘Betty is a rocket scientist. everybody else on the base is a Skrull.’ ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-mens-rogues-stolen-powers-who-was-miss-marvel/209802/27 "2003-10-29T07:30:46Z")
What, no mention of the “Spider-Clone Saga,” **DocCathode**? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-mens-rogues-stolen-powers-who-was-miss-marvel/209802/28 "2003-10-29T07:42:33Z")
No. Because, AFAIK, after the revelation ‘The real Spidey is the one who left NY. You’ve been watching the adventures of the clone all this time!’ Ben Reilly was killed in battle. His body immediately crumbled to dust which meant ‘Oops! It really was the clone who left NY after all! You have been watching the adventures of the real Spidey all this time. Sorry bout dat.’ ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-mens-rogues-stolen-powers-who-was-miss-marvel/209802/29 "2003-10-29T10:18:54Z")
😕 And I thought logic got twisted conspiracy theory debates! ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-mens-rogues-stolen-powers-who-was-miss-marvel/209802/30 "2003-10-29T12:18:05Z")
> [@](#): > > IMO, this ranks up there with ‘All Superman’s powers are psychic.’, and ‘Betty is a rocket scientist. everybody else on the base is a Skrull.’ I’ve heard the former, but not the latter. More? ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-mens-rogues-stolen-powers-who-was-miss-marvel/209802/31 "2003-10-29T14:28:39Z")
I said we shall not speak of Phoenix… > [@](#): > > I thought Jean’s present code name was “Jean Grey”…yeah, that’ll fool 'em. IIRC she goes by “Jean Grey” as her code name precisely because she’s not trying to fool anyone. Back when Jean got involved with X-Factor there was a lot of anti-mutant hysteria running through Marvel’s books, to the point of Congress passing a “mutant registration act.” Most mutants ignored the act but X-Factor very publicly registered, and Jean assumed her own name as her code name as a way of “coming out of the mutant closet.” By operating openly under her own name she serves as a counter to the “they operate in shadows using false identities and masks” argument, and also serves as a role model for other mutants and an example that it is possible to operate as a mutant openly in a human world. Of course the fact that she’s a stunningly beautiful woman as opposed to, say, The Mandrill makes the proposition work a little better. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Elvis_Rojo)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-mens-rogues-stolen-powers-who-was-miss-marvel/209802/32 "2003-10-29T15:01:47Z")
I thought Jean started using the code name “Pheonix” again fairly recently. Also, in the two Apocolypse focused miniseries involving time travel, she was calling herself Pheonix. I believe they were entittled _The Adventures of Cyclops and Pheonix_ or something. ---
**Author:** ![bmoak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@bmoak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bmoak)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-mens-rogues-stolen-powers-who-was-miss-marvel/209802/33 "2003-10-29T15:40:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DocCathode \* > \*\* > **Intaglio** > Without digging out my Official Handbook To The Marvel Universe, Rogue can steal the abilities of any super powered individual, not just mutants(Except Asgardians. For some reason, they appear to be immune to her powers). Back when she was still a criminal, she knocked out Captain America with a kiss and then used his powers to fight the rest of the Avengers. \*\* Rogue’s powers worked just fine against Thor in her first appearance in Avengers Annual #10 (the same story where she drained Cap as well). It was Wonder Man whose powers she couldn’t absorb. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-mens-rogues-stolen-powers-who-was-miss-marvel/209802/34 "2003-10-29T17:57:12Z")
Hmm. . . But I’m sure that in the What If ? issue What If The X Men Had Stayed In Asgard? one of the reasons Rogue decides to stay is that she can touch Asgardians without absorbing their powers. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-mens-rogues-stolen-powers-who-was-miss-marvel/209802/35 "2003-10-29T21:12:21Z")
Well, **Doc** , the Rogue from every appearance save her first is about 15 years younger and has one fewer stripe in her hair, so I guess we can overlook the asgardian retcon too. 😉 –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2022, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-mens-rogues-stolen-powers-who-was-miss-marvel/209802/36 "2022-07-13T09:21:30Z")
This is a funny thread to bump. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2022, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-mens-rogues-stolen-powers-who-was-miss-marvel/209802/37 "2022-07-13T11:34:35Z")
And yet, he’s back too. Female CM also went by Spectrum and Photon. She was great in NEXTWAVE. Thankfully she didn’t have to deal with as much creepy weirdness as Danvers. The other Ms. Marvel/She-Thing eventually became human again and a singer I think. She re-joined the FF using a Thing robotic suit while the regular Four were away. The “copier” I really pity is a kid named Prodigy-he could copy knowledge and skills just by being around people. This meant he knew a lot of useful stuff like magic words, but also how it felt to have Wolverine’s claws and how most of the X-Men kissed. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2022, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-mens-rogues-stolen-powers-who-was-miss-marvel/209802/38 "2022-07-13T14:58:47Z")
Ms. Marvel/She-Thing, whose real name was Sharon Ventura, briefly went villainous after Doctor Doom mutated her to an even more monstrous form, but then settled down on Wyatt Wingfoot’s reservation. The singer you’re referring to who wore a Thing suit is not Sharon, but Darla Deering, who dated the Human Torch. She went by “Miss Thing” during that time. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2022, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-mens-rogues-stolen-powers-who-was-miss-marvel/209802/39 "2022-07-13T15:03:45Z")
_Sigh_ Did I know that? Thank you for the correction! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2022, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-mens-rogues-stolen-powers-who-was-miss-marvel/209802/40 "2022-07-13T15:16:37Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > This meant he knew a lot of useful stuff like magic words, but also how it felt to have Wolverine’s claws and how most of the X-Men kissed. Is “knowing how most of the X-Men kissed” supposed to be some sort of curse? It seems to me that there’s a significant portion of the fanbase who would want that knowledge. Though I suppose in the long term, it might prove frustrating… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-mens-rogues-stolen-powers-who-was-miss-marvel/209802.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-mens-rogues-stolen-powers-who-was-miss-marvel/209802.md?page=3)