# X Y is not Y made in X, it's Y made in Z. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 7, 2010, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-y-is-not-y-made-in-x-its-y-made-in-z/524009 "2010-01-07T06:41:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-y-is-not-y-made-in-x-its-y-made-in-z/524009/41 "2010-01-08T02:38:01Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > “English” muffins are American, although they do kind of resemble crumpets, which are indeed English. Nonsense. What Americans call English muffins are known in England as . . . . muffins. They have long been available in England, as attested by the old nursery rhyme: Have you seen the muffin man, [i.e., seller of muffins] The muffin man, The muffin man? Have you seen the muffin man? He lives down Drury Lane. What Americans call just muffins (without the “English”) would, I think, just be cakes in England. Crumpets are something different, but are also available in America. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-y-is-not-y-made-in-x-its-y-made-in-z/524009/42 "2010-01-08T02:43:54Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > I can’t find this anywhere in that thread. There is some discussion of cheddar not having to come from England, but nothing I see about the point of origin of American Cheese. I do not see that there either. Someone (mistakenly) suggests that “real” cheddar comes from Wisconsin rather than Vermont, but does not press the point, and someone else argues that Vermont cheddar is better than cheddar from Cheddar, but no-one attempts to deny that cheddar originated from Cheddar, in England. Cheddar is hardly a city, though. More like a village. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-y-is-not-y-made-in-x-its-y-made-in-z/524009/43 "2010-01-08T02:48:48Z")
My mother, in the UK, used to be fond of a candy known as American Hard Gums. They were sort of like fruit jellies, but much more solid. I have now lived almost 20 years in the USA and have never seen them, nor has anyone I have asked ever heard of such things. (I don’t know if they are still available in the U.K.) ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-y-is-not-y-made-in-x-its-y-made-in-z/524009/44 "2010-01-08T03:37:13Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > What Americans call English muffins are known in England as . . . . muffins. Right, but the specific designation “_English_ muffins” is used only by _American_ manufacturers and consumers. The English do not call their muffins “English muffins”. (On the other hand, we Americans do call American cheese “American cheese”, not just “cheese”.) So I think the term “English muffin” does in fact qualify for the category of “X Y is not Y made in X, it’s Y made in Z”. (And yes, it is true that the American baked good known as an [“English muffin”](http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/1331502/2/istockphoto_1331502_crumpet.jpg) kind of resembles a [crumpet](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crumpet).) ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-y-is-not-y-made-in-x-its-y-made-in-z/524009/45 "2010-01-08T03:42:08Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > You’re all wrong. The cake is named for a type of chocolate, German('s) Sweet Chocolate. The the type of choclate is named for an American man called Sam German who worked for Baker’s Chocolate Co., which to this day sells the stuff, And Sam German was born in the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-y-is-not-y-made-in-x-its-y-made-in-z/524009/46 "2010-01-08T03:49:18Z")
Well, you don’t call them “Mexican tortilla chips”, but tortilla chips are considered Mexican food, even though they are of American origin. ---
**Author:** ![CBEscapee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@CBEscapee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBEscapee)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-y-is-not-y-made-in-x-its-y-made-in-z/524009/47 "2010-01-08T03:56:02Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#): > > Well, you don’t call them “Mexican tortilla chips”, but tortilla chips are considered Mexican food, even though they are of American origin. Where in the world did you come up with that idea? ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-y-is-not-y-made-in-x-its-y-made-in-z/524009/48 "2010-01-08T04:10:28Z")
I’ve written an as-yet-unpublished book on exactly this topic (tentative title “Not a Pig, and Not From Guinea”). I can confirm from my research that most of the examples cited here are valid (and included in it): American cheese Panama hats Australian Shepherds French Toast English horn/cor anglais French horn French fries Brazilian Wax Some others of interest might be: Guinea Pigs French Leave, Bean, Kiss, Letter English Disease Spanish Flu Maltese Cross Hawaiian Pizza Idaho Potato Dutch Cap, Courage, Treat, Uncle, Wife German Cockroach, Measles and many more … happy to answer any questions anyone might have about any of the above. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-y-is-not-y-made-in-x-its-y-made-in-z/524009/49 "2010-01-08T04:14:03Z")
> [@CBEscapee](#): > > Where in the world did you come up with that idea? What, that they’re American? [link](http://articles.latimes.com/2006/feb/07/local/me-carranza7) ---
**Author:** ![Civil\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d78d45/32.png) [@Civil\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Civil_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-y-is-not-y-made-in-x-its-y-made-in-z/524009/50 "2010-01-08T04:16:23Z")
Consider an omelette made with bell peppers, and probably onions, cheese and bacon. I like them, and if I wanted one here in Southern California, I’d look for the menu item “Denver Omelette.” So I was in Denver a year ago, and went into a restaurant that served something called an Anaheim Omelette. Curious, I ordered it, and found that it was what I would otherwise have called a Denver Omelette, only served with a slice of avocado. So avocados really are the hallmark of California cuisine. Apparently, Denver residents don’t feel any special ownership of a perfectly yummy breakfast dish. Huh, who knew? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-y-is-not-y-made-in-x-its-y-made-in-z/524009/51 "2010-01-08T04:23:18Z")
Yeah, regional/ingredient associations are probably a whole subcategory of this phenomenon. E.g., in cookbooks and menus “florentine” generally means “with spinach” and “provencale” means “with tomatoes”. But do the people of Florence and Provence, respectively, identify them as such? ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-y-is-not-y-made-in-x-its-y-made-in-z/524009/52 "2010-01-08T04:33:41Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > Idaho Potato Don’t tell that to anyone from Idaho! The state has a patent or some such on the words, to the point of shutting down a french fry restaurant \ that called it self Idaho Potato Fries, or something like that. After reading the thread, I suppose I am going to be disappointed when I ask about the origins of delicious, tender babyback ribs? ☹ ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-y-is-not-y-made-in-x-its-y-made-in-z/524009/53 "2010-01-08T06:19:22Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > And you can’t make babies from adding water to baby powder, either. I have a package of pet treats I picked up in Japan once clearly labeled “Baby Jerky”. I don’t wanna know 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-y-is-not-y-made-in-x-its-y-made-in-z/524009/54 "2010-01-08T07:01:59Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > It’s thanks to people like you that we have to put up with reading [“housemade”](http://www.seriouseats.com/2009/05/language-menus-housemade-is-the-new-homemade-menus.html) now? > > Thanks. I said I want to ask, not that I do. I am well aware of the three-headed-stare phenomenon described by **slowpony** and have no wish to experience it further. Has anyone investigated the truthfulness of the Boston/Manhattan clam chowder dichotomy? ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-y-is-not-y-made-in-x-its-y-made-in-z/524009/55 "2010-01-08T10:14:34Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Right, but the specific designation “_English_ muffins” is used only by _American_ manufacturers and consumers. > > The English do not call their muffins “English muffins”. (On the other hand, we Americans do call American cheese “American cheese”, not just “cheese”.) > > So I think the term “English muffin” does in fact qualify for the category of “X Y is not Y made in X, it’s Y made in Z”. > > (And yes, it is true that the American baked good known as an [“English muffin”](http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/1331502/2/istockphoto_1331502_crumpet.jpg) kind of resembles a [crumpet](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crumpet).) I would tend to support you, because in the UK the American kind of muffin, the little cake-like thing, is now much more commonly seen than the “English” type. Ironically, many people probably only encounter the English type at McDonalds. I have never eaten or even seen a muffin that was not part of a McMuffin. So from my point of view muffins of either type are associated with America. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-y-is-not-y-made-in-x-its-y-made-in-z/524009/56 "2010-01-08T10:44:04Z")
> [@Rodgers01](#): > > What, that they’re American? [link](http://articles.latimes.com/2006/feb/07/local/me-carranza7) I think it’s because corn tortillas themselves are undeniably Mexican (Aztec) or Latin American (Mayan) in origin. And the innovation is so trivial that it’s hard to believe nobody for [at least 5000 years](http://whatscookingamerica.net/History/Tortilla_Taco_history.htm) happened upon it. All you’d have to do is accidenatlly fry it until it is crisp, and break it into pieces. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-y-is-not-y-made-in-x-its-y-made-in-z/524009/57 "2010-01-08T11:27:52Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > I would tend to support you, because in the UK the American kind of muffin, the little cake-like thing, is now much more commonly seen than the “English” type. Ironically, many people probably only encounter the English type at McDonalds. I have never eaten or even seen a muffin that was not part of a McMuffin. So from my point of view muffins of either type are associated with America. This may be a regional difference, or simply a shopping preference: I’ve been eating “English” muffins for decades, and never had any trouble finding them. My local supermarket has several different brands and varieties. ---
**Author:** ![TastesLikeBurning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@TastesLikeBurning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TastesLikeBurning)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-y-is-not-y-made-in-x-its-y-made-in-z/524009/58 "2010-01-08T11:36:14Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > The French horn is not French (and the instrument is now just known as the horn)… _Freedom_ Horn I think you’ll find. ---
**Author:** ![kenlhav](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@kenlhav](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenlhav)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-y-is-not-y-made-in-x-its-y-made-in-z/524009/59 "2010-01-08T14:12:58Z")
Canadian Bacon in Canada has three names - Canadian Bacon, Back Bacon or Peameal Bacon. It is called Canadian Bacon in Canada because it is only available in Canada (although see [www.realcanadianbacon.com](http://www.realcanadianbacon.com)). Canadians don’t recognize the US “Canadian Bacon” as bacon. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-y-is-not-y-made-in-x-its-y-made-in-z/524009/60 "2010-01-08T18:26:17Z")
In a delightful subversion, until I took a trip to Brussels, I had no idea that belgian waffles are in fact Belgian. I assumed that they were from Belgium the same way that french fries are French (ie, someone in America decided to call them that). But, nope, the big, rectangular, puffy waffles are indeed Belgian - you can buy them on street carts there! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-y-is-not-y-made-in-x-its-y-made-in-z/524009.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/x-y-is-not-y-made-in-x-its-y-made-in-z/524009.md?page=4)